“However, relations would not truly advance until France promised to relinquish leadership of the Covenant of Mirus (after their failure to keep the Pseudopath-Scythe for leaving?)”
To be perfectly and totally honest, what prompted France to make that gesture was the reality that nobody would take the Covenant seriously so long as it was seen as a French project. Alexandre totally invented the whole "leadership" thing with the express purpose of handing it off to the Waptoria. Nothing in existing treaties (i.e., on the Second War or Covenant page) mentions anything about French leadership, and in fact asserts that all Covenant states are equal. France claimed no special status prior to that moment. The reality, though, was how the Covenant was being perceived: as Alexandre's instrument, as being led by him. The fiction of "handing off leadership" was just, to the French, fulfilling what they had intended all along.
@Gorzill What happens after the whole debacle where the French pummel the DEC's fleet and the Covenant suddenly finds itself at war with it? Is France going to have to carry war over to the DEC in order to get redress? Or will the Covenant dedicate substantial forces in a unified response?
France's war goal would be admission of war guilt and substantial reparations (in ₣) paid half upfront, half over a period of 20 years. This means that if NP wants to peace France and the Covenant out to focus on the UPD, he needs only pay that sum.
@Charles: Indeed, and what matters is that, until that point, the Waptoria also saw it that way. Even now the Trumvirate still suspects France is pulling the strings at best, or, at worst, has turned the Waptoria into a puppet state. XD
@KnightAlien: The Waptoria be like *Gives back cure* We have evolved an improved version now anyways.
@Charles Page will just pay the reparations the moment he knows he's been beaten. He's not stupid and knows when to fold 'em. That will get the Covenant off his back and leave the UPD unable to attack him as the DEC is not one, but five nations united under one banner so they'd be outnumbered.
This will give Page time to build up the DEC's power, arm them with hyperspacial weapons, anti-accel space measures, and make the deals with the various supernatural powers.
@Gorzill France would have thoroughly destroyed their existing fleet in that opening engagement and tooled the reparations in such a way as to heavily hinder the DEC's ability to get back on its feet. The DEC would have to go into debt in order to pay those reparations, which means that it'd have to pay interest on its debt on top of continuous reparations to the French. This means that the DEC would probably have to downscale its spending in a number of areas to actually stay afloat financially, which means less money for a new brand fleet (HUGE EXPENSE), less money for maintaining control over the domestic population, and less money to fight the UPD.
Where does the money to rebuild the DEC's naval power come from? He's pretty much crippled at this point and it would take him years of careful stewardship and growth to recover.
@Charles Certain factions such as the Collective Conclave(a bunch of self replicating robotic hive insects) and the Thousand Blades(a fanatical religious organization that believes money is evil) have no monetary system and no way to pay reparations in any case. FarStar is a gigantic multinational corporation with several monopolies. So he'll have FarStar, The Fundamentalist Movement, and the Imperial League foot the bill. FM and IL will take massive hits and FarStar will be set back a bit. Thousand Blade's will have had their military hidden away as a reserve and Collective Conclave will be busy rebuilding.
France - Because taking more land at this point, especially on the other side of the galaxy, is going to cost more to France than it is going to return in dividends. With this solution, France takes no further losses in lives and materiel, gains a huge sum of money and income which it can use to rebuild its losses, and reduces the DEC's ability to do the same.
France - Alright, field a fleet again. We'll just sink it like the first time.
@Zilla What would you think of Page convincing 219 Nostroma and her rouge faction to help him on his mission. Basically offering her the same shot at godhood he is trying to obtain.
My actual long term plan is to use Page to assemble a massive army of almost every single villain faction we've had. Basically creating a threat so vast the UAE must be kicked back into gear to stop it, since only cooperation on such a intimate and vast scale as the UAE was able to provide will stop them. That and the UAE has rather extensive knowledge on how to battle the various supernatural forces, which there will be a TON of.
Persa - Yes because nukes are sooo effective against evil incarnate, the powers of darkness, monsters from the void, insane megalomaniac data entities, and The Invisible Thing knows what else. Swords seem to work against those things for some reason, hmmm...
Persan - We tried nuking Qliphoggr, a lot, it got bigger. We tried anti-matter bombing Qliphoggr, much the same. We tried sucking it into an artificial black hole, it ate the black hole. None of it worked. What would you know, but weapons and violence apparently can't stop evil incarnate. The power of love and friendship is more then sufficient though, go figure.
I think Eco had the full list of events somewhere. Basically, Barda and the other High kings are killed, Kirta goes on a quest to avenge her father, as Phase hunter becomes her mentor, and gathers various mendel splinter groups to take him head on.
Ah, so i'm guessing it's a more independent conflict while the UPD leaves the covenant and does it's own thing? (Makes sense, ethier way Eldarisia will most likely get dragged into something by like Waptoria.)
Indeed. Mirus Divided happens after the Hand of Ruin happens after Marinus' Rebellion.
And as for the HoR plot:
Massive anti-Xonexi sentiment allows the Hand to get into power. Harbingers of this were the Triumvirate of Mirus and the Mendel Pact secretely but fully supporting the Talven in Marinus' Rebellion.
The Hand convinces Ord Acaya, Supreme Empyreal to support him as the new Walgolorian leader, playing on Ord's slightly croocked way of doing things, and promising him greater power and position.
Defeats first Comacar, then Barda in battle, taking both their positions, before Ord and the Council of W'alor exile Lwerian'ca and his clan for failure.
Phase-Hunter escapes into the outer reaches, as Kirta suits up to take on HoR, intent on avenging her father, unwittingly gathering a following of supporters from more moderate clans.
Unbeknownst to the Covenant of Mirus, foul beings from beyond (=Darkling Brotherhood/Qliphoggr?) have corrupted roughly half of the Hegemony's military, leading to a civil war. The Commandos, who have for the mayority have become Dark Koatria themselves after the Koatria massacre, decide to stage a coup. The astartes are sundered, with some staying loyal, others being corrupted, and others, sickened by the Hegemony's actions, defecting over to the Mirusians to fight along with the Olympians who used to be their brothers.
Word of the absolute mess the Hegemony is in reaches the Olympians via these deflecting astertes. They duly report it to the Covenant as is their duty. The Hand launches into an oratory that the Mirusians should not allow this corruption to reach the Hegemonic holdings in Mirus and between the lines practically advocates annexing them, before restoring order to the greater whole. Trying to appease the Hand, the Covenant lets him.
The Hand sends a retribution force into the Hegemony's Mirusian holdings. With the aid of a well-planned Olypian offensive, he's successful, and the Olympians (not just the Brazen Bulls) join his quest.
Once in Andromeda, beyond the scrutinizing eyes of the Covenant, the Hand breaks his promise and starts straight-up murdering everything related to the Hegemeony he comes across in revenge for the Koatria massacre. His own sub-commanders behave much more courteously and the Olympians who came with them begin to question the Hand's motives. Driven by vengeance themselves, the Koatria Protectors, who deployed their full force alongside that of the Hand to fight the Commandos, yet don't. The Olympians stay with the Hand, but only to resque any civilians they can - so the Hand can't slaughter them.
Basically, a clear-cut war breaks down into utter confusion. Skorezny, ashamed off his failure and realizing what his actions have done, kills most of the very Commandos he helped train. A small minority escape into Mirus and fully embrace the dark gifts the Darklings have bestowed upon them. Skorezny leaves in pursuit and becomes a bounty hunter in Mirus, fighting for the highest bidder.
Since the perpetrators of the massacre are either dead or have fled back into Mirus and Skorezny having more-or-less redeemed himself, the Protectors advise the Hand to retreat too and aid in hunting down the remaining Commandos, who have become a danger to everyone. The Hand refuses and continues the counter-massacre. The Procectors quit and leak word of what the Hand in doing to the Covenant (while in a ironic twist of fate, Skorezny joins the Protectors' ranks?).
Ammox dies in battle against the Brazen Bulls when the Hand's forces land on Durac, and they advance on the Imperial Palace with the objective of killing Marius and ending the Hegemony. The Hand fails to reach the inner chambers of the palace Marius is in due to Rakar quite literally flooding the place. When asked to purge them, the Grey Hunters collectively say "Screw this, we're not helping you any longer" alongside the other Olympians and withdraw with the surviving Hegemonic astartes and civilians, leaving the Hand to his fate. The Hand nearly -is- killed, but is saved by Kiun, Ryaler, and Saren. Unbeknowst to all of them, Marius has already gone down fighting the Dark One, and Durac is lost to the infernal hordes. The Hand's retribution fleet is badly damaged and is forced to retreat too, but is not fully destroyed.
The rest of the Hegemony's military leadership is scrambling to fix the situation. Marius, being much longer lived then any Zozer in history and being an amazing leader, becomes the focus of a new religious cult created by a Sophia Jamduar, who has become almost mad with grief over his death. The cult prays for Marius's return and a return to order and the collective pool of psychic energy births a new being. It looks like Marius but is devoid of his good qualities. Compassion and mercy are replaced by cold arrogance and a desire to crush all of reality under his heel. Basically a new sub-group of demons, though they look "angelic" being white and gold colored, smooth and metallic, and with wings. Sophia is rewarded for her devotion and becomes the second-in-command of this new group, essentially transforming into an arch-angel. Despite this change, she retains most of her memories, and blames the Mirusians for Marius's death and the fall of the Hegemony. She also takes the Andromedan heartlands back from the Darklings and transforms it into a theocracy where free thought is forbidden.
Ulrac Cale and Vassilus Orkan are in charge of what's left of the old Hegemony. While the colonies in the Quadrants still stand strong, the Hegemony's overall power has been broken, with the colonies in Mirus having fallen to Hand, and the Plazith colonies ending up expunged in the civil war between the Marius Sect and the Darkling Cults.
Back in Mirus, the Protectors have successfully leaked word of the Hand's doings to the Covenant, and he's ordered to stand trial. Instead, he breaks off all contact with the outside universe and prepares for war.
The Hand asks the rest of the Triumvirate to join him "in his righteous struggle that will see everything the Triumvirate has ever hoped for archieved". The Zarbania Powers flat-out refuse, and the Persan virtually piss on him.
The Hands sends two of the Walgolorian commanders, Kiun and Ryaler, to set up shop with an advance retribution fleet near France/Eldarisia, but they learn that the Empyreals, the druids that lead their people, had manipulated things to put the Hand in Power in their corner of the Pact, under the command of the Supreme Empyreal, Ord Acaya. They defy the Hand's orders, break off contact, and form their own mini-empire enclaves, later joining up with Kirta's forces. Another Empyreal, ashamed of what they are doing, goes to the two and reveals what he knows. They go through the whole "declare the Hand a false leader, and Kirta the True Queen"-thing, and begin to mobilize.
Learning of their treason, the Hand then sends Ord and the third commander, Saren, to deal with them. A long hard battle is fought, and Vron Shian, and the traitor who revealed everything to the two, confronts Ord and kills him, as Ryaler and Kiun convince Saren to stop obeying the madman, and get her too obey.
The Franco-Eldarisian-Draconid-TIAF-Waptorian blockade is erected in response to the Hand's bellicose fleet movements. The Hand finds himself trapped in his ex-Tyranny territories with no way out.
Phase-Hunters appears to the Peacebringers, other Olympians, and the newly-renamed Hegemonic astartes delfector groups, and leads them to join Kirta.
Takanuis leads the Koatria Protectors to join Kirta's forces. Angand'r gets long too (which is utterly irrelevant in the wider sheme of things but I throw it in here because it happens). Coupled with all the supersoldiers Phase brings in, this causes Kirta's formerly meagre army to become an actual elite fighting force.
Kirta leads a force into the Ruin's Hand capital, who are the last remaining remnant of the Proditkar Movement at this point after the Cicle of Sins caused their own doom and the Citadel has been defeated two conflicts before this conflict and re-absorbed into the Waptoria. She directly challenges Lorka Gredyc, triumphing over him in battle, and claiming ownership of the entire organization. Next, she convinces another Mendel splinter group, the Tul'kaarin, to join her, after their second-in-command removes the leader from power. As she does so, Rexsuta, fresh from cleaning up the Warrior-Hunter house, joins her, along with the successor to Nantau'vo'kush.
Making her intentions fully known, Kirta declares open war upon the Hand's retribution forces, and demands he step down and accept his punishment at her hands. The Hand, obviously, refuses.
The blockade ultimatum expires and the Hand has not relinquished to the F-E-D-T-W's terms. The Covenant attacks.
Kirta's forces directly engage too, and make a beeline towards the Multus Esse installation he's set up shop in as his capital. Big battle ensures, the Hand dies.
Kirta takes command of all Mendel and starts restructing them into a unified empire. When asked if they would like to stay with their Mendel conquerors, the formerly Hegemonic Mirus colonies say no and join the Federation instead (who thus get the Hegemonic races added to their species roster in addition to the Tyris ones, which they already had to begin with). This gives the Federation a much-needed power boost and perhaps drives them to be granted full represantation. The Quadrantia Hegemonic loyalists eventually end up limping back to the side of the Mirusians. Otto Skorezny, true to his word, loyally helps the Koatria in hunting down the last remaining rogue Commandos, but, refusing to have anything more to do with the Hegemony, settles down in Zarbania and rebuilds his own commando work from there on out - he just can't shake off his passion for thrill and adventure.
It goes pretty much without saying that this will be divided into at least 3 parts: Retribution's Rise, At Hegemony's End and Ruination of the Hand.
@Gorzill: All in for that idea, but the fact that's it's the UDP who are calling it might raise a few eyebrows/raise suspicion, especially after they made that whole "technological independence from the Enlightenment Alliance" move. And let technological/cultural collaboration be exactly what it is all about. The military aspect takes the far second place and only truly comes to the fore in times of war (Attero Dominatus, Warrior-Beast Incursions ect).
And because that's the case, I've come to realise that the Enlightenment Entente (Enlightenment war-era)/Enlightenment Collaborative (post-Enlightenment War-era) might have been a better name for the organisation. Perhaps the (Unified) Enlightenment Alliance might be it's after the Persan (re-)launch it (because the military aspect will be far more heavily emphatised upon), thus formally ratifying a name it was always known by?
My actual long term plan is to use Page to assemble a massive army of almost every single villain faction we've had. Basically creating a threat so vast the UAE must be kicked back into gear to stop it, since only cooperation on such a intimate and vast scale as the UAE was able to provide will stop them. That and the UAE has rather extensive knowledge on how to battle the various supernatural forces, which there will be a TON of.
Their technological independence was basically them adapting the situation after they realized the UAE was defunct. A lot has changed since then and they've decided that revenge is a pointless goal and that rebuilding the UAE and holding back the worst of the enemies is what's important. Kryunn's successful efforts to get the Warrior-Hunters back up and running as well as Takanius leading the Koatria has done a lot to convince them it can be done and is worth it.
They haven't exactly stopped sharing their tech either, just been very secretive about it. The Koridable-class Battleships having positron weapons is proof of that. If they get the UAE back up and running they'll start sharing more tech, programmable matter for instance or Utility Fog could be one of the first.
Alright, I'll send something right back. Though this exchange would probably take place before the HoR, right after the Persan leave, given the Citadel of Sapients gets defeated in between and the Waptoria can counts on Eldarisian by aid then.
I'm in the process of revising French grand strategy, given that the UPD debacle will prompt a pretty intense shakeup of French thinking. One of the things I just calculated is which parts of the galaxy can be reached by French long-range strategic bombers (combat range of 25,000 ly when unaided by in-air refueling). http://imgur.com/a/yXmVB
@Charles By the way I do have a method by which the French could defend themselves against Accel Space attack. I mentioned a few before in the last thread, but I retconed them into something simpler, well two things.
1. Missiles don't generate a closed circle since they're just not important enough. So you could create a point defense system that would fire into Accel Space to take out incoming missiles.
2. The French could build devices that effectively create the equivalent of a hurricane in the accel space region of the planetary gravity well. This would force the Persan to enter real space to attack. You would need about two these devices for max protection, though one would be a significant deterrent.
Of course the Persan will develop their own (similar) anti-Hyperspace measures if the French chose to implant these.
@Gorzill I... I guess that kind of works if you want to force a realspace battle, which the French are equipped for. I'm not sure a device which would cover only the gravity well of a single planet would solve anything, given that we're talking about a region of space the size of the French Empire.
I've built the French Empire in such a way that it's a complicated network which needs to remain connected and in communication in order to function. When those connections exist, the Empire is self-reinforcing in that it uses every corner to grow and get stronger. This is why the French place such a great emphasis on controlling large tracts of space, given that they not only need to defend their territories or planets, but the vast stretches between them which are needed to keep them in communication. Otherwise their economy (and by extension, their war machine) breaks down.
This makes for a lot of strategic play, given that these vulnerabilities multiply the number of options available to you in fighting the French. Can't fight an open naval battle against the French Empire? No problem. Use void hunters and stealth ships to prey on their shipping from Borealis, from which France gets a lot of its andasium, metals, rubber, etc. Or prey on shipping from Andromeda and the Milky Way, to cut off the flow of food and water to net importers of food such as Borealis and French Mirus. Meanwhile, France has to defend all of that, which is why being so big is going to be difficult for them. This is normal.
But my concern, as I've mentioned before, is that this is way too easy for the UPD given Accel Space tech and far too hard for the French to stop them. It goes from a legitimate and difficult contest between France's attempts to defend its convoys and the attempts of others to prey on them into a one-sided and laughable slaughter given the one-sided mechanics of Accel Space. This is why I keep warning that Accel Space is overpowered once you start thinking about strategy as opposed to individual battles...
Well you can open up cracks in the upper levels to the lower levels and flood a region with Stitches making it unsafe to pass through. You can also jam up vast ammounts of flotsam and other debires to basically create a blockade. Accel Space is full of junk, a basic idea of what Accel Space looks like -> . You could litterly create a lightyears across junk pile to block off incoming attacks.
Also like I said you can intercept missiles traveling through Accel Space, they don't generate a closed circle meaning you can make it so the UPD has to come to you to attack, they can't just spam you from range. There is stratagy to be used here, but its not destroying the enemy its forcing them to attack where you want them to.
Keep in mind the other factions the UPD has fought with have done just fine without any Accel Space tech. Quick to deploy orbital defenses are a really good option since Accel Space users must drop into real space in rhe planet's gravity well to attack anyway.
If I can do that easily enough to block off entire hyperlanes that go from galaxy to galaxy, can't I just flood my entire territory with that in Accel space so the UPD can't attack it, period? Why can't I flood the entirety of Mirus which makes it impossible for anyone to use Accel Space, period?
Because there's simply not enough junk for you to do that. Most stuff that gets dumped in Accel Space is either destroyed, warped into flotsum, or becomes a Stitch. Also Accel Space is really big there's no way you could flood the whole of French territoty. Trying to would just create an ass ton of Stitches that would happily try to eat every frenchmen they could come across. Best to work with whats already there.
Right, but the French don't use accel space and so it doesn't affect them. And if I can't cover the entire French Empire in this, then this can't work. Seriously. It would be much, much simpler to do what Dino and I did which was to figure out how the Rambo could shoot at the French while travelling at warp, and vice versa.
Well your gonna have to open up a rabbit hole anyway if you want to interact with Accel Space at all. I suppose you could have a way in which the French could shot somthing that weakens a smakl region of the third level of accel space dropping a ship into the lower regions of Accel Space. This would effectivly take the ship out of the picture while not violating the Closed Circle law.
Keep in mind all that flotsum will allow your enemies to play peek a boo while the french fire at them. This is so I can keep the UPD's guerilla warfare tactics relevant, that is important to me.
Charles Murray wrote:
Can't fight an open naval battle against the French Empire? No problem. Use void hunters and stealth ships to prey on their shipping from Borealis, from which France gets a lot of its andasium, metals, rubber, etc. Or prey on shipping from Andromeda and the Milky Way, to cut off the flow of food and water to net importers of food such as Borealis and French Mirus. Meanwhile, France has to defend all of that, which is why being so big is going to be difficult for them. This is normal.
Keep in mind the UPD is much more motivated to adapt to fighting threats such as the Scelus over the French. Simply because that while the Persan tend to regard the French as petty and cruel to a degree (that's the blue and orange morality mind you not that the French are in anyway petty and/or cruel) they know the Frencph will only attack if provoked, the rest of Mirus isn't so trustworthy.
Basically making a defeated power pay reperations, for the Persan that's rubbing salt on the wound because "you already won what more do you want?"
Then there is the whole thing of not letting the Dragowar rearm because for the Persan not letting someone rearm and forcing them to rely on you for protection is very amoral because everyone must be able to fight for themselves.
Just because the Persan have a different sense of morality doesn't mean that they have to be irrational >.< France's actions generally have no moral content and instead look to balance the system and ensure peace, such as making sure that the DEC--which the Persan agree have hostile intent--isn't capable of posing a threat or harming anyone else.
"not letting someone rearm and forcing them to rely on you for protection is very amoral because everyone must be able to fight for themselves."
This is actually correct because "amoral" means "lacking a moral sense or moral content."
Well keep in mind the Persan see the idea of peace as one of the biggest lies. To them there is no peace just just the space between the next big conflict, the next round of bloodshed. For them peace is an immopsible dream. You simply must do what you believe is right, deal worh the curent threat, and prepare for the next fight.
Also they don't really believe in rationaility either because as far as their concerned the universe is just to absurd for such a thing.
"To human eyes", yes, they can. I'd actually encourage it, because, again to human eyes, what else can you reasonably expect alien customs to be viewed as by other aliens? This particular article served as a real eye-opener for me as to how stange human customs must look to an alien society. As long as it makes sense to the Peersan, and they can offer a feasible explanation why (which might or might not make sense to the French), then it should be no problem (out of universe).
There's nothing irrational in it and I can understand where it's coming from. That doesn't mean that I agree, but alas, that's not the point here.
You brawl with someone. He roughs you up but you knock him out first. That you were injured doesn't mean you -have- to take his money afterwards: he's probably more injured than you are.
The second thing is akin to the gun control issue on a bigger scale.
And last but not least: The Persan stance on something ≠ Gorzill's stance on something.
Yes, I'm very well aware of that article and I love it. If you want to go the anthropological route (because I've studied anthro), you'll actually find that human customs, rituals, moral systems, taboos, etc are not arbitrary, strange, or random. They are a product of the material situations and social relations that human societies find themselves in, and typically fall into place to ensure the survival of the group. They reinforce existing relations and behaviors which tend to be beneficial for the continuation of the group and of society, and deincentivize or make taboo behaviors which are harmful to the society.
All of this to say, morality which seems "arbitrary" to us really... isn't. There's a current of societal interest, of structural (perhaps unconscious) rationality which make similar strategies, social formations, roles, and rituals reappear across cultures and millennia. Self interest (rationality in Political Science), shaped by the imperatives of survival, is pretty easy to understand across cultures.
Morality changes and overall society-wide shifts are usually the result of a new leader coming to power and beating view points into the heads of it's people while crushing others or a shift in a religous system made by the leaders. (Two main reasons in this universe atleast) Even then though you need a solid reason for change since people hate change usually since it breaks from the norm of society and what they feel secure about.
From studying the change in Germany to Nazi Germany, I have observed an obvious change in the norm of society, but not on a drastic level even compard to the UPD's actions as a nation. This shift which didn't really effect society all that much as awhole aloud people to tolerate Nazi Germany for a longer period of time and accept the Nazi regime. (Of course until later in the war.)
The change in the UPD is VERY drastic, reshaping what makes races a race all together and it happened in less then twenty years. I think Charles point is that it seems like something that has happened too quickly and without much reasoning besides Anti-Xonexi caused this or something along those lines.
If the UPD populace is brainwashed, under a very STRICT dictatorship or feeling their existence threatened to a extreme level where nothing else seems possible are the main reasons a society shift like this should happen so quickly.
I just wanted to give my opinion on this since I myself was shocked by the shift in the UPD society and it sure does shock Eldarisia. I am not trying to put your work down since it can/does show the ambition of the UPD and maybe even the unity of the races, but it seems alittle too fast to me personally. (Note: Eldarisia is united internally, but this is a result of everyone being required to follow the religion of Cuth, the Eldarisian religion and so on. So you could say it's brainwashing or just mass propaganda to the extreme. *Brainwashing isn't the best term I tihnk personally since they still can learn about the universe and aren't ignorant*)
They do progress fast from a vast number of reasons. Puting them all down would be an whole essay and since I only have accsses to my tablet that'd be a pain, when I get my computer back I'd go into more detail in an actual essay. A short list would include the bizaare alian biology of its member races, blue and orange morality, ready access to technology and information that makes today look restricted, and a culture that heavily ephasizes intagration and is very ambitious and survivalist.
Also Accel Space plays a major role, because Accel Space is werid like that.
Though I'm not sure of the change your talking about. The MegaAccel Revolution is just a period of intense technological advancement and the UPD's morals are the same as they've ever been, the Persan are just becoming more outspoken about them. The only real change has been technology.
Keep in mind the Persan as a whole don't mind the norm being broken because for them there is no norm, just the state their in at the moment.
Well I think of it from the perspective of a Human, the main change I saw was implementing cybernetics into the body so their basically a conscious with a body they can leave whenever.
When I see that, I personally would never want to be a conscious since I believe it would destroy what makes me Human and many others would agree, so I think it was drastic since a race altering idea was just accepted and everyone did it with no hesitation or atleast not alot.
Even for a society which changes to fit it's environment, I personally believe that something that would permanetly change what they are would be too drastic even for them. (There is a difference between cellular repair technology and then becoming a full-fledge cyborg or robot.)
Once again though, this is all my opinion and it is one of an American Conservative, I have older values but ones with common sense none the less. (In other words, I know what your talking about, I just don't think it would happen so quickly :p)
Well the Persan were cyborgs well before this. They had fused organics and synthetics to the point of being undefinable from each other, cybernetic and genetic upgrades being as common as today's cell phones, and neruo synchronization systems being the interface for pretty much everything. This was just the next step for them, though only a few have fully done it.
If they just went organic -> this then I would agree, but they haven't and it's been a long way in the making. Drastic as it might seem on it's own, from the crude and distinct melding of biotics and bionics at the beginning of the Vanara Empire, the gradual refinement troughout it's existence, to the nanocybernetics at it's end and the organic-synthetic synthesis of the early United Persan Descendants, this, to the Persan, is merely the next step in a long process which will (probably) render them total Accel Space beings when it's complete.
@Eco I remember that Waptoria wanted to reform the Covenant into an organization which folded in/revived the UAE? France is pretty content with the status quo, but would be open to reform within the Covenant. If the Waptorians want to take the lead on this, let us know how.
What I could see happening is that while the Waps reforming the Covenant into the UAE revives the galactic government aspects of the UAE. What the Persan do ends up reviving the collective societal and military aspects (or rather give them some central authority to answer too and some consistent funding).
And then you have got a "New Enlightenment" in Eastern Mirus, (mostly) upholding the old collaborative ideals even after it's collapse. It was formed after the Covenant of Mirus happened, but really became significant after the HoR, when many Olympians fled to the east in fear of both being replaced by the Delta Troopers/Sephirah Hosts and of being repressed by the Covenant after they had aided the Hand. They were joined by Warrior-Hunters who came to the east basically because they could no longer hunt Warrior-Beasts and wanted new, dangerous prey. So what happens is whatever collaborative programs ceases to exist in the west, it would still exist in the east.
The New Enlightenment is probably also the one that (unwittingly) provoke the Eternal Empire into invading the west, as well as (again unwittingly) bringing about the east-west contact.
Well Warrior-Hunters are still up and running thanks to Kryunn tajing over after HoR, I don't imagine he'll be terribly forgiving of those Hunters leaving out of boredom. Their still in really bad need of funding though.
In anycase the threat of Page getting all the bad guys together could cause the Elightenment revival and the New Enlightenment to work together and fuse creating a bigger, stronger UAE.
Hmm...well I am not sure if the Lilims will work to the extent you desire, only because the Eldarisian species mates with a strong mental connection, so if they start trying to have sex with one, they will probably notice the hivemind and go Wow, ten million hive mind things trying to enter my mind all at once OnO noh.
^ So you would have mass reports of hive mind people and while they may not be detected at first right away, they would all soon be found since the Eldarisians make up like atleast 85% of the Empires pop. I am not sure if technology can detect them though, but it would be used on people after finding out that hivemind shapeshifters exist amoung the populace.
To make it short, Eldarisia would have a seizure going Omg, hivemind horny shapeshifters everywhere ;o;
@KnightAlien: For the first-generation mate the connection is purely personal, after that though...I'll have to change that, then. (The Waptoria aren't a hivemind though and neither do/can they enter other people's minds - it's more like telepathy rather than DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO!?) Any further suggestions are welcome too. But perhaps it's best we keep that to the Pad.
...Eh, no thank you. That's really not what the RP is about >.<
Like, at all.
You can check.
I was going to make a joke about this but I'm literally too dumbfounded now.
I do vividly remeber Hachi turning an RP between Aeon and GD about Lingur and Mortrig into an ERP though. With tentacle armor penetration. And organs falling out. It was...weird...to say the least. And graphic.
Also no, the titpad is the Eldarian-Waptorian meeting and in it, Eco put a note about this Lilim idea. I just posted aobut it here since it's easier to write long paragraphs about it which I know i'll do.
@Charles: It was before your time if I remember correctly. But yeah, I see. I -roughly- know what happened. Seems like that really created a bigger division then I thought.
@Zilla: I did not. Though since the Grox splinter thing has been retconned, I at first glance thought it was you. Since that anon only made one edit (and went on the wiki specifically for that purpose?), perhas it was Chantal (again)? Sadly, given the circumstances, that seems all too likely.
After. But then again, most of us are around before they actively join. At least I was.
And ugh, I know. Trying to fix the Great Deciever war, accidentally pissing people off, making tons of beginner mistakes, pissing yet more people off and being too oblivious to notice. I'm not exactly proud of those days. Expectably, my Katarian experience didn't exactly end on a pleasant note either.
Alright, we used to butt heads and I'm still a little bit pissed about the whole "Now there's Waptoria, blink and now they never have been there/Now there's Imperium, blink and now the Tarkans have always been there"-thing (who wouldn't?), but that's fixable. I know I never got kicked -offically- but with all my empires retconned out/replaced and all attempts at new entries blocked, you really left me no other choice (and that's not an accusation).
In a way, I'm actually quite glad it happened as it forced me to go full Mirusian (until then, I felt Katarian more than anything) and it made me miss out on the height of the toxidity. So, yeah, thanks I guess /:)
Though I consider the Katarian chapter to be closed and done with, I still have some questions left. Who came up with that whole "Katar for Katarian only"-rule? Why -exactly- was Aeon kicked? (I know it had something to do with stubbornness and the Cleanser.) For that matter, who advocated kicking me out, and for what reason? I'm not trying to reopen old wounds here, just asking questions I've long wanted to ask, hopefully finding answers and finally putting the past to rest.
Since I've turned a new leaf I think I have the right to know. Certainly, it was mostly my own fault. As you are doubtlessy aware, I had the nasty habit of being overzealous, totally oblivious and taking everything at face value at the same time, leading to quite some regrettable descisions on my part. Though there must've been more to it since Aquino made the same mistakes (upsurped the Eagula region from Kioskstrum and barred his entry back in) and no one but Kioskstrum raised a fuss about it. (The fact that Kioskstrum wasn't too liked either probably helped.) I know Aeon really hated me (and he wasn't even so secretive about it - while I actually believed him to be one of my best friends. Yes, I was -that- oblivious), and I am led to believe Aquilo didn't like me too much either though we hadn't much interaction. Darkwarrior I most certainly had a very good relationship with, second only to Sporeraptor. Gmfk and TheBuilder...I liked them too, but at this point, I'm not too certain about anything any longer, especially because Katar was such a "close-knit"/conformative community.
That's definitely something you should know. The reason the Waptoria and IoW were retconned out is because you went inactive for an extended period of time and we couldn't reach you, we assumed you had left the wiki. We really, really, really needed someone to continue Katar's story, so we swapped me in. If I remember correctly, it was an executive decision taken by me given that I was under a lot of pressure to find a way to keep the story going. Otherwise, Katar would have died.
As for Aeon, he wasn't kicked, he left (of his own accord) due to disagreements as to how fiction should be conducted. Katar was a community which relied exclusively on roleplay (as a game) in order to determine the course of events, and as such grew out of how roleplay communities are structured and conflicted with the narrative-based format of Sporewiki. That implies strict rules of canonicity, relative power, and so on. Those rules were far too restrictive for Aeon, and so he decided to leave and create his own sector. He left the wiki entirely soon thereafter when his own project attracted little interest.
As I mentioned above, this had nothing to do with anything you did or how you acted at the time. There were some times where you accidentally violated user permissions and authorial intent, but that was a separate issue. The Katar retcon was just an issue of activity, and I'm kind of devastated that you were unaware that it was something so simple this whole time. I'm sorry about that, and I'm glad we can talk about it now. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Really, the only toxicity in Katar I know about involved Aeon (he didn't get along with anyone as far as I know) and the occasional misunderstanding regarding Katar's rules with those outside the sector.
As for the Eagula Region, Koikstrum was banned from the wiki if I remember correctly. >.< After that, Aquilo decided to give the region new life and integrate it into Katar.
Ah, I see. Yeah, even though I went inactive for a while, my reasoning went that you guys could simply use the Imperium of War regardless. After I came back, I suddenly found them gone with no way to bring them back in, and this made me quite unaware of why things happened the way they happened, if I was still welcome, those things. On top of that, I couldn't get any clear answers as Katar was quite seperate from the wiki at that point (up to an entirely different forum), so I was really led to believe I was unwelcome, hence why I didn't make any true attempts at reintegrating myself. It defenitely feels good to get those answers now!
Given that it was -that- simple, is it possible for me to get the Waptorian space in Katar back? They're nothing but wildlife sanctuaries, so my headcanon was they were given to the Combine, but now they're inactive, there isn't really anything to keep them from being poached. Tyranny attacks back home forced the Waptotia to leave, even though they also wanted to stay around in order to drive the Tyranny from Katar - the Great Katarian Fiasco. An in-universe explanation as to why the Tarkans replaced the Imperium would also be nice. Something akin to
In 2785, the Grand Tarkan Empire, under Gran Beyvik Dishal V'klor, took advantage of the chaos that engulfed lower Katar when the Drakodominatus Tyranny, and their vassals, the Imperium of War, entered the sector. The Tarkans attacked several nations and subdued them in an effort to impress the Tyranny, though their alliance offer was turned down rather harshly. By 2790, in spite of mounting attacks by the Imperium of War who increasingly saw the Tarkans as rivals in their servitude of the Dominatus, Dishal had acquired a good portion of territory and nearly doubled the size of the realm. Instead of congratulating the Grand Tarkan Empire, the Tyranny coldly demanded that these territories be handed over in 2791. Dishal feared the Dominatus' might and was forced to give in. Half of the territories of the Grand Tarkan Empire were given away, most of which went to the Imperium of War, much to the dismay of the realm.
In December of 2792, the Tyranny had clung to life after a devastating slave revolt and was barely holding its ground in the Katar Sector against the allied forces of the Drodo Empire and United Free Peoples Coalition. The Imperium of War had been ousted from Katar by the combined offensive of the Drodo and the Hegemony, shortly before the Hegemony was in turn driven out, and the Grand Tarkan Empire had been quick to recover it's lost territories. Dominatus commander Mortrig Malevon ordered the Tarkans to engage the armed forces of Delcath massing against him. Dishal, again, complied. He sent his children, his heir and master at arms, Etzan Vklor, his second son, Abanan, and his daughter, Sirga, to attack Miperiors at the head of the Tarkan Imperial Army.
Yeah, you were absolutely welcome to return. If you want to speak to Drodo and Tek about it here on IRC (they're Katar's stewards now), I think we can definitely work something out. I would personally be in favor of retconning them as being there the whole time, but that's up to you guys ultimately.
I forgot just how compelling the Grand Tarken Empire was. Yes, the above can absolutely work.
The problem with that is that there already is an entire narrative build around the Waptoria leaving Katar (as they're in a hurry to get back to Mirus, they accidentally jump right into an hyperstorm, which throws them off-course and strands them into the nearby Byzan sector, without a clue as to where thye are and without any way to contact to the main Waptoria - groupmind messages take time, especially back then. The crash-landed fleet gets discovered and saved by the early APR in the nick of time, hence the formation of Waptorian Byzan Web and eventually the Waptorian-APR-alliance when the ARP/ByzanWaps successfully set out to find the main Waptoria as to allow the two WapWebs to rejoin).
For when the Persan begin to push to revive the collective social and military aspects of the UAE there is a somewhat ulterior motive. Basically its to spread Persan cloths, media, food, and other culture and products to give them a lot of cultural and economic prowess allowing them to influence society more. Before this they will be slowly letting go of their Xonexi hatred (not friendly, but not hostile) since it's rather difficult to get someone to buy your shit if they know you hate them.
Alright guys, this is some time in coming. I've got a long post to catch you guys up on what France is going to be doing in Mirus (and more broadly) after the Persan attacked them in 2816. France, ever since its victory in the Great Xonexian Schism, has been very much limited by something called retrenchment, which is essentially a feeling that France was overcommitted to military occupations, foreign ventures, international guarantees, and far, far, far too big militarily for a peacetime society to ever exist.
The Marier administration slashed the military budget, limited foreign involvement, kept the military on an exceedingly tight leash, and sought to pursue French interests in as limited and uncostly a way as possible. Despite how unpopular he was when he left office (I was actually surprised that he was so unpopular abroad), his split personality administration achieved remarkable things during his time in office and its foreign policy was generally successful. He and Alexandre worked together to draw down France's occupations and replaced them with internationally-sanctioned peacekeeping efforts. They helped defend the Milky Way against the Loron Crisis and prevailed in the Commonwealth Civil War and the Borealum Crisis. France exercised its diplomatic talents during the Marko Colonial War.
These did not feel like victories at the time, as they were accompanied by a measure of humiliation. On full display was the dysfunction of French politics and the straight jacket which crippled France's every movement. Yet, somehow, the illusion of French invincibility was maintained.
Baako Anan's administration came into power well loved, with a supportive public, a unified party, and receptive foreign audiences. He advocated a return to France's values, those of liberté, égalité, fraternité, as guiding principles not only in the Nation's civic life, but abroad as well. He believed in a universe of free and equal states, guided by rationality and bound by fair and just institutions in a grand brotherhood of nations. His was a different view of retrenchement. Rather than restrain the use of force in foreign policy, he wanted to make military force obsolete.
It was ambitious, no doubt, but required no grand moves or initiatives, only the maintenance of current norms and institutions. The Gigaquadrantic systems and guarantees that Alexandre had helped forge would grow and evolve on their own, bringing great wealth, prosperity, and security to France. The French experience during the Borealum Crisis seemed to confirm this, and gave great confidence to French elites that the status quo could continue indefinitely so long as French power and alliances could outweigh the forces of revision and unjust violence.
For four years, from 2812 to 1816, they were right. An attack on French allies by the Hutter Kingdom in the Quadrants in 2812 was forced to end with unconditional withdrawal by an international blockade, the very same strategy employed two years earlier against the Hand of Retribution. All of Xonexi was still at peace enjoying a golden age, but important tectonics were changing in key regions outside Xonexi which caused unease among French publics. The world wasn't as malleable as it was before, French policy didn't move with nearly the same élan, and setbacks and unsatisfying events occurred with more regularity. France needed to get moving again, had to do something about the misery, the injustices, and the slights in the world around it. The myth of French decline began this way.
The tipping point was long in coming. It could have been triggered by any one of the crises France endured, whether in the Marko Colonial War, the Borealum Crisis, the Hal'Sk Civil War, the raising of the Gorge, yet none of these events brought together the right elements at the right time as perfectly as the Persan occupation of Menento in 2816. It was a tactical move by a Mirusian power, thought to be easily reversible, meant to draw out of hiding a much greater threat to the peace in Mirus. France would thank them later, the thinking went.
For the French nation, the world shattered on that day.
French Menento was a territory of little importance, a holding which most Frenchmen were not even aware existed. Yet the rapidity with which it surrendered, the helplessness of its defenders, the the blindness and disorientation of the French response, and the damage caused during the DEC surprise attack, resulted in humiliation for a country which had thought itself absolutely secure just a week prior.
The backlash against existing French policy was ferocious and unforgiving. How had the Anan administration not known that this double betrayal was coming? Why had they allowed the Persan Descendants to leave the Covenant without even making the slightest effort to reel them back in? Why had it given the Persan permission to build up forces on the border while neglecting Menento's defenses? Why were French forces caught so off guard that they could not defend themselves against a second-rate navy? How incompetent, lax, and weak had France gotten that this series of catastrophes was possible?
Though in reality nothing had changed in France's strength, the blow to its confidence and prestige was severe. France had appeared much weaker and vulnerable than it actually was, though this in itself posed an extreme danger. With the myth of invincibility subverted, France's rivals were much more likely to challenge its power and much less likely to listen to it. As a result, both the French public and political elites across the political spectrum demanded action. The French Empire needed to get out there, think big, jam its foot down on the gas, spare no expense, leave no idea untried, and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was still one of the universe's greatest hyperpowers. The Anan's difficulty in communicating just what had happened, and the Gorge Crisis with Rambo Nation just a few weeks later, only served to reinforce this urgency.
Overnight, the shackling impetus for restraint in foreign policy was gone. Anan, who had entered office hoping to make demonstrations of military power obsolete, signed into law the first increase in France's military budget since the end of the Great Xonexian Schism while attempting to restrain the most radical of the hawks who sought to force him into direct confrontation with the UPD, the DEC, the Siranian Directorate, and Rambo Nation all at once––at a time when France's military had atrophied and was in no state for great power ambitions. Baako made peace with the UPD (on the terms that we should probably discuss) almost immediately, and after a brief naval campaign into East Mirus also signed an end to the war with the DEC to generalized bafflement within the Empire.
Knowing from the UPD that Page would return sadistically with another army in five years if left to his own devices, but unwilling to overextend France's resources, Baako had forced the DEC to pay heavy reparations to severely hamper their ability to recover their military power. The Persans can perhaps appreciate this assessment, given that there is no peace with Norman Page––just the quiet between two wars.
The issue of French prestige and vulnerability––especially in Mirus––was still real and pressing, and it grew increasingly clear that the Empire could no longer postpone a policy of confrontation in the Quadrants. It is to shake the atrophy of ten years of peace and miserly spending, to train the forces of key allies, to stress test the ability of the components of the Grand Navy to operate as a single unit, and to demonstrate its enduring strength and capabilities that France will begin the largest naval exercises since the Great Xonexian Schism. They will take place in the unclaimed space under French Mirus, spanning tens of thousands of lightyears. Three supercarriers will be fielded to southern Mirus to keep the navy supplied (quasi-)independently of French Mirus for the duration, with one being switched out halfway. All of the Mirusian powers will be invited to bring their own forces to participate in training and exercises alongside their French counterparts, and to observe the Grand Navy at work. French forces stationed at critical points throughout the Empire will be cycled out so that the vast majority of the Grand Navy will participate.
French industry will also be going to work once again for the Grand Navy, most critically the planned and gradual expansion of France's capital ship fleet.
France is most definitely not planning on waging an offensive war against anyone anytime soon. The rage against the UPD and DEC will be quick to subside as events with Rambo Nation monopolize the public's attention. France will be extremely active in soliciting the concerns of other states around it, and to do their best to accommodate and reassure. With the exercises going on, the vast majority of the France's Giaquadrantic armed forces and that of its member states will be present in southern Mirus, remaining there for about six months––the window of vulnerability. It is unclear, however, how many of these forces will be remaining in Mirus once the exercises are over. This is a subject of debate among the French leadership, and will depend in great part on how other Mirusian powers are acting during this period.
Simultaneously, French diplomacy would strongly encourage the Waptoria to go ahead with their intended reforms, and would be very glad to see the Persan returning to the galactic scene with plans to bring back the UAE. France would also love to encourage trade between itself, Xonexi, and the UPD.
@Charles Cool, sounds good to me. One thing I was thinking of is the UPD inviting high ranking members of French society to live in their territory for awhile which could shed sime intresting light on the UPD's apparent paranoia. Also I could see the Persan and French "exchanging history books" so to speak. Seeing how one another views the past events that led to this situation could help promote understanding and prevent history from being repeated.
Anither thing I think would be intresting to tackle is sterotypes and how those effect how on culture views another and so on and so fourth.
@Gorzill Sounds great to me! The French might pout for a while longer after the UPD attack, though French officials will make it clear that it's just for show, as a matter of national pride, and will quickly warm up to the Persan again once an appropriate amount of time has passed. Exchanges between them would be very much welcome. The Persan would definitely be invited to participate in the military exercises in southern Mirus, though.
@Eco Pls reform Covenant. Also, would the Waptoria attend the military exercises?
@Charles: Frst things frst. Enlightenment in Exile and whatnot.
And yes, they would; though more as a matter of formality than anything else. Don't expect them to show off new ships or anything - that really is counterproductive to their stealth-based approach to warfare.
@All: Matrukoris had been under attacks many times, but has it ever been stolen? That's exactly what I'm planning for the Enlightenment in Exile to do: steal an entire space station, and with a little help from the Koatria Protectors, probably enact the biggest heist in Mirusian history, all while remaining anonymous due to the swiftness of the action.
Now at the point of the heist, all administrative fuctions have dissapeared from Matrukoris and relocated to Viel, Tiendas ect, so the station lost most of it's importance. Which is exactly why the Enlightenment in Exile is able to steal it in the first place.
@All I'm currently working on a new story called the The Nagatonium War. It's being told via a series of diary entries, news stories, ship battle records, etc rather then character interaction or Wikipedia style. Just trying something new. Anyway any of you are welcome to join if you like.
@All Actually I was thinking of doing a bit of a retcon on the Mointors origins. Basically after the Multus disappeared and before their creations reached space there was a power vacuum. This vacuum got filled by another race who were rather Abusive Precusors and were eventually destroyed during a massive war when their subjects rebelled (their subjects were also pretty much whipped out). Anyway so these Precusors created the Mointors as weapons to control the elements and their subjects from afar and had to be sealed during the rebellion because only some who can control the elements (like Koatria) can kill them and the precusors pretty much killed any of the members of the races they subjected who could do such a thing. How's this sound?
"The Grand Navy has changed and adapted in response to changes in the French Empire's political and strategic situation over the two decades since the Great Xonexian Schism. With no major rivals to face and a public eager to enjoy the dividends of peace, the enormous wartime Grand Navy was cut down to a small peacetime force of professional soldiers aided by some of the best military technology in the Gigaquadrant. The Navy's capital fleet was similarly cut down, though maintained a sizable enough force to balance against potential rivals in the four corners of the universe. From 2807 to 2816, the awaited challenges to French power failed to materialize, leading to further cuts in defense spending and the adoption of a relaxed defense posture. As a cost-saving measure for non-deployed troops, personnel were often allowed to return home and hold day jobs while receiving half of their military salary, large scale military exercises were rarely held, and many types of military investment and development ceased. Small-scale crises such as the Commonwealth Civil War and Borealum Crisis in 2810, the Hutter Incursion Conflict in 2812, among others, seemed to validate existing French military practice. Precise uses of naval and air power in concert with French allies were more than sufficient to keep the peace and maintain French interests."
Mainly because the Waptoria will step down as chairmen of the Covenant in the aftermath of the Persan/Pseudopath/Scythe/possibly others leaving and pass down the chair to the GMCS (or whatever goes for it at that time).
@Gorzill/Charles: It's really only the French that deny the Consulate rearmement by vetoing any proposals on the contrary, not the Covenant as a whole. The Waptoria, for exemple, are in favor of it, feeling the French are quite opressing a fellow democracy. The Consuls feel quite the same, and when the Persan occupy French Memento, they'll attempt to break off and join their Persan allies.
@Zilla: I was also thinking about renaming the GMCS into the Mirusian Theocratic Congregation. The idea is that, after the Great Mirusian Conflicts, with the deaths of the Prophets and with all those refugees within their borders, the GMCS gets more religiously tolerant. This leads them to develop the idea that every deity is Spode in some way, which eventually becomes the idea that Spode itself is but an aspect of the One God.
Of course, the MTC gets declared as heretical. Perhaps a coalition of extragalactic Spodists threatens to invade and restore it to the true faith (the GMSC-Divinarium conflict?), which only gets called off when the Covenant flexes it's muscles for the first time.
@Eco - Right updated that. When the Covenant gets reformed into the UAE the Persan are going want to implement a vote system, having come to regard a consensus system as utterly ineffectual, at least in this case. If they succeed one of the first issues they'll bring to the table is allowing the Dragowar to (officially) rearm, hoping to use Mirusian votes to overwhelm any Xonexi objection.
I apologize for the tone of my previous message, I was not a happy camper this morning due to family drama. I'll try again with a clearer head.
@Eco/Gorzill I think I might have been a little misunderstood when I explained France's position on Dragowar rearmament. I just re-read our conversation on the Rebellion titanpad, where I explained that France would be in favor of allowing the Dragowar to rearm if the situation demanded it (i.e., the Covenant being unable to provide for Dragowar security). In that event, I expressed that France would be open to considering rearmament proportional to the demands of the security situation.
I also expressed France's desire to see the Consulate reintegrated economically, politically, and socially and treated in principle as an equal partner. France would be in favor of its ascension to the Covenant as an equal state wielding a veto, which would allow it to have a voice in issues of rearmament.
This is not threatening to France, since it firmly believes in self-determination. This presents a second case in which France would support rearmament: if the Dragowar leadership wants to rearm, and the Dragowar people are in accord, then the imperative is for them to rearm, though to do so with attention to relations with other states and to the balance of power.
Lastly, there is a third case wherein France would accept rearmament and withhold its veto, albeit reluctantly. This is in the case that a consensus within the Covenant exists that rearmament is necessary and justified, even if it is on grounds that France disagrees with. France does not believe that its veto power grants it the power to singlehandedly countermand the will of the entire galaxy. France believes that that is an abuse of veto power and would not engage in such behavior. I had hoped that after nearly twenty years of Covenant meetings, this went without saying. Veto power, whether in Andromeda, the Milky Way, or Mirus is a tool to be used sparingly. It is to be used by powers to ensure that any deal represents an exact compromise between the different parties, objectionable to nobody. As a result, France would accept that rearmament is the will of the galaxy and proceed to help the Covenant craft a rearmament plan which represents the will of the galaxy, the will of the Dragowar people, and which it can live with.
Again, I apologize for my incredulous outburst this morning. I was taken aback that assumptions had been made that France would act in a way I had not intended, and that it would be diplomatically penalized for actions I never gave permission for it to take. I understand that there's a tendency for Mirusian powers to want to find ways to characterize France's actions and positions as unjust, and that's perfectly fine with me. There's a history there, and the age-old animosity doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon despite the best efforts of myself and France. However, I urge you not to let France's negative IC reputation influence how France acts in your headcannon, especially in blank spaces like France's policy towards the Dragowar that I have yet to fully explain. Please ask me in the future what France is likely to do or how it is going to approach a problem.
France's position in Mirus is a difficult one, I'll be the first to recognize that. At times it feels like there's nothing it can do to make Mirusian natives happy except pack up and leave, which is impossible. French Mirus is home to trillions of people by now who think of themselves as French Mirusians, a great many of them Andromedan and Plazithian refugees of many nationalities and races who settled there during the Great Xonexian Schism. They live and work in one of the great industrial dynamos of the French Empire. French Mirus, previously the DT's home territories, has become an industrial center which accounts for a mind-boggling proportion of French economic activity and production, with other components of the Empire rushing to give it capital and raw materials to work with. France cannot pack up and leave because to do so would be to abandon billions upon billions of people (who vote, btw) to an uncertain future. It would also be to abandon hyperpower status for good. There's also a high chance that the French Empire without French Mirus would no longer be viable economically.
France's main interest, then, is to live in a safe galaxy. When you get down to it, that's pretty much it. It doesn't want to trample on anyone, tell anyone what to do, threaten or hurt anyone, or expand in any way. It just wants to be safe and secure, and it would very much prefer to do that in a way that is harmonious with the desires of native Mirusians. Every facet of its policy is informed by this one principle, this one goal. So long as that is respected and fulfilled, France is flexible and ready to compromise.
@Charles - If it helps France any, after the defeat of the Hand, Kirta and her new command will make the Mendel realize their policy of fighting the Xonexi to protect Mirus, ironically enough, is as harmful to Mirus as any perceived Xonexi imperialism. So after the Hand, they defiantly soften up a bit, and stop being all resentful and passive aggressive.
@Eco - That's a good idea actually. I was hoping to include a group inspired by The Banished, in this gives a perfect opportunity to not only cause some friction with other Spode groups, but also give more radical elements an excuse to break off.
@Gorzill - Basically, a very Byzantine-inspired group that continued a lot of the Multus Esse's work until the other races could arise. I was hopeing to rework them to be more like the Slann, but never got the chance.
@Charles - Ah right thanks for clearing that up, and yeah I can get why that would ruin a morning. In any case I still see the Persan being upset about the mass bombings that were used to defeat the Dragowar since they didn't resort to such tactics (this is for the sake of mass character, so to speak, development mind you) and feel immense levels of guilt that they didn't take a harder stance against it, keeping in mind they created the Zadkiel Conventions to save civilian lives and the Persan felt that they had betrayed what that stood for. It is named after the archangel for Chesed after all, kindness, benevolence, and mercy among other things.
Regardless the occupation of Memento will be a source of major catharsis for the Persan would had been suffering from vast amounts of humiliation, frustration, and feelings of betrayal revolving around the war against the DT and their territories. The French were just unlucky enough to pull the last straw.
In any case I do have a conflict in mind that could have the Dragowar rearm. Basically the invasion by the Scelus Purification which will be the Mirusian equivalent of the Black Death.
@Zilla Oh right I remember them. Hmmm, perhaps your faction and the one I had in mind existed as rivals at one point and mine got destroyed in a war between the two?
@Zilla That would help tons indeed. I believe that we're having France and the Mendel Pact organize large yearly tournaments and training exercises between French forces deployed to Mirus and the Mendel Warpath? Would it be possible to expand military cooperation further in the near future?
@Zilla The Dragowar at the time were rogue actors and engaging in worse war crimes and as such were not protected by the Zadkiel Conventions in international law. But yeah, I'm glad that Menento provides them catharsis. The UPD page still mentions that there's an trade embargo on the French Empire. Maybe the UPD and France could enter into talks to figure out how they can normalize their relations? Another idea we could contemplate as part of the exchanges you mentioned earlier is the creation of forums for Persan and French civil society to discuss galactic issues and come up with potential policy solutions. One major issue could be peace in Mirus, another the reformation of the Covenant.
@Charles Their aware of that, but the Persan are trying to hold themselves to a higher moral standard regardless, they used to be much, much more ruthless and brutal (once again character development). This has motivated them to never declare another power a rouge actor ever again. Talks would be good though, perhaps an RP?
@Zilla: Yeah, that sounds good. The Circle of Sins will be the first to repond (obviously in an agressive manner), only to find themselves hopelessly outnumbererd and their leadership (aka Maccasin) decimated. Their remnant could later join up with the Banished-inspired group (from which the Circle also draws inspiration).
@Charles: Well, am I glad I missed that outburst. The reason all of us thought France would not allow Dragowar to rearm was because "France hasn't lifted it's veto on that issue yet" - which simply implies the veto is in place for that issue, not that it constantly uses it to preserve it's own power (I think we are all quite aware of that). I can't speak for Gorzill, of course, but not being allowed to take your own fiction in the direction you want can be quite taxing. I -don't- blame you for that in the slightest (I mean, those actions are perfectly logical - they're Dragowar after all so you can't let them run loose). Nevertheless, I sought for a way that would allow the Consulate to be what I wanted it to be, which was currently impossible for me to archieve; hence the rebellion. I -did- hope to find out how France would react to such a development, too, but the reaction wasn't quite what I expected. To be frank, I too am taken aback by what I unknowingly kicked up.
For me at least, it really had nothing to do with you, France, antagonizing France, the plans you had for it, or anything else related to you and/or France. It simply had to do with the Consulate and the route I wanted it to take. I think you meant Gorzill though ;)
A map of the Scelus Purification's invasion of the Former Tyranny Territories. I only used Former DT territories since I don't have a map of the east and the full Mirus Map is not updated so I stuck to this for now. Also I've only done the powers I know will be involved so If you want me to add you just say so.
@All Given the recent changes to the Mirusian Triumvirate's stance on the Board of Six, Balbus will want to speak with them again before carrying out his plans. This could just be briefly mentioned in my/our articles, though I'm happy to involve the conversation(s) in another story (such as a meeting between all of the allied nations).
I can't speak for Treebeard since I don't know his specific plans, though he might be referring to the fact that Marinus' Rebellion spans many years and likely hasn't happened yet. I.e., he was in the planning phase back before 2810 and is still trying to maneuver into a good position today in 2818.
@Eco In response to your previous comment, alright cool. That helps a lot, I'm glad we talked about that issue. The Covenant is evidently going to be changing and shifting in reaction to all of these events, so I'd love to talk about what's been happening within it when you're up for it. Dragowar rearmament is one issue that we'll need to work out a compromise on, the goal being to put the Dragowar on the path you intend them to take.
Also, alliance? :D (You could use the alliance talks to nudge France towards shifts in policy if you like, this is an opportunity for you to both define the framework and secure certain details of your relationship with the French Empire, beyond a simple "we're allies now yay").
Randomly suggesting this as the Mendel victory theme. Hands down the best track from the second game I ever played, Nanosaur II being my first.
If memory serves, the first game Sporeraptor ever played was Nanosaur (I), so we could relate. The impact it has had on both our fictions can hardly be underestimated. It's part of the reason the Raptoraneans/Troodontids are dinosaurs, the Citadeleans steal eggs/infants to turn into flesh-crafts and fight their battles, the Bifröst is a literal wormhole, pre-city-world Raptura looked much like Nanosaur (I)'s terrain, Viel looks much like Nanoaurs II's first level's deciduous/dry parts, Warminz looks much like Nanosaur II's second level, Eucadios looks much like the third level minus the mangrove plus the first level's smoking vents, and Raptoranea looks much like the third level's mangrove plus the first level's submerged parts.
The Hand deployed a very significant force to Mendel Borealum, threatening France. The DI, Eldarisian Empire, TIAF, Waptoria, and others rushed troops to the Mendel-French border in response. Then Alexandre threatened to bomb the territory if those troops didn't leave. The allies had to follow through with that threat when the Hand didn't accept. They bombed the territory with everything they had and then seized the territory.
While the Persan trigger happily maraud around, and take a good number of worlds for themselves. Their no friends of the allies though as their only concern is putting Kirta on the throne and killing the Hand. In fact they consider the allies just as much of an enemy as they do the Hand.
...At which point Kirta and her Reclaimers rush in and kill the Medel dictator, ending the war.
@Gorzill: You gotta watch out with that though. Those words belong to the Mendel, and taking them for yourself counts as a declaration of war. All the more so because they're taken from an ally, who is naturally going to feel really, really betrayed and pissed off at you.
@Monet: Before that, the Hand also pretty much destroyed the (much weakened) Unified Hegemony of Andromeda out of revenge. Of course, that's Patriot's intention, but I can imagine the DI won't be all too happy about a fellow PAE state being destroyed, which might be the point they switch over from a policy of appeasement to executing skirmishes on the Hand's forces. This would force him to retreat from Andromeda back to Mirus, leaving some parts of the Hegemony to survive (which Patriot also intends). From there on out, the Borealum crisis starts, in which the Hand attempts, and fails, to take out Eldarisia and France. The rest is history.
@Zilla/Glynn: Since the Raptoraneans and (apparently) Soldarians share a genetic relationship to the Mendel, I was thinking that the Hand would start his campaign by trying to convince them to join the Pact. Both refuse, after which he goes to convince the rest of Tyris Mayor of his ideals. However, upon learning that the Hand killed Barda, Brygon nearly chockes the Hand with the power of the void, who only narrowly manages to escape.
@Eco Well their gonna give them back intact once Kirta is in power and the Hand is dead of course. Their taking them so the allies don't get bomb those worlds and the Mendel get something back of military value and what not that isn't heavily damaged.
@Gorzill: There's a reason he puts up shop there instead of on Ugandalore - The Mendel ex-Tyranny territories the most Hand-loyal out there. So how do the Persan intend to take those worlds? Utilise the Waptorian method and release obscene amounts of Mendel-targetting tranquilizers (which still accidentally kill specimens thanks to overdoses)?
Well stuff is going to get blasted, but the Persan can use their new Territory tech keep the destructive force of their weapons contained solely to the area they intend to destroy. After that it's assassinate pro-hand leaders and then lock things down with EMPs and containment fields. Then just use ground presence and arming any pro-reclaimers to teeth to maintain control.
@Zilla By the way I had an idea with the Hand creating giant, ridiculously strong and fast Mendel Warriors with massive weapons. Basically have some Dark Souls-esque boss battles. I've been playing the third game recently so there ya go...
@Gorzill - Sounds good. The original Nine where Mendel who where crippled from fighting the Xonexi, and as such, had nothing to lose. The Hand basically used his fortunes to turn them into the perfect machines to help fight Phase-Hunter, the High King's Imp, and the most dangerous threat to his ascension as King. So perhaps he has several others side-lined for other duties.
@Eco - I saw the recent changes to The Eldarisian-Waptoria meeting, and I wish to correct something. The Mendel have never been enflamed by Zarbanian rhetoric. They have taken this attitude by their own volition, and it is, in fact, Zarbania that wants them to calm down and stop being so passive-aggressive and hide their intentions a little better. IE, Barda snaps at Kithworto, and The Iron Chancellor tells him to stop being so blunt with everyone, etc.
@Zilla: I know they aren't, and I can change that if you want, but, due to the Zarbanians being the one to start both the Coalition and the Triumvirate, that's what the Waptoria still believe.
Waptoria - @Persan: Uh huh. But then you'd still be nomads roaming trough the empty void of space, eventually without any new directive, forever. No one would've have bothered to make contact with you, your fate would be uncared for, any progress unmarked and in the end, your existence forgotten like so many others. And no, we never called you sadistic monsters. We are not the Hegemony.
(I'm not offended or anything but that's more or less how it would've gone if the Waptoria hadn't made contact. Even then most of the times I still fail - see the fate of the Scientific Combine of Nakeimato, the United Councils of Xiliaan, even the Troododntid Empire. They have no fates because I failed to integrate them properly in our fiction - and in the Troodontid's case, also due to a really bad internet connection and with me failing to convince Sporeraptor of the usefulness that are message walls and TitanPad.)
@Eco Keep in mind I'm just talking from my fiction's perspective not my own. I'm really glad I got involved in all this. I have a few regrets, but that's life. How could I regret something that's helped me grow as a writer and come out of my shell?
The Persan are feeling incredibly broken right now. They can't catch a break and the whole universe feels like it's against them. First off Attero Dominatus was source of immense dissatisfaction and humiliation. They fought just as hard as anyone else and were all, but forgotten. Then the Xonexi take over the former DT territories and the Persan were unable to help their allies fight back. Well their allies gave them some territory anyway and things were looking up. Then the French and Eldarisian strike back and the Persan were forced to give up the territory they had gained without a fight. Something that is fundamentally wrong to them since the Persan believe that giving in is wrong and you should always fight back no matter the odds.
Anyway life went on the Persan did start to level out to a degree. then the Scelus Purification attack in force (they had just been raiding until then) and no help from the Covenant was forth coming. They won, but is was a pyrrhic victory and was never going to be anything but. Their sacrifice was not really acknowledge by the wider universe and all the anger and bile of past insults began to rise up again. Then the Devourers attack and the Persan Vanara citizens discovered that their ancestors had been created as a food source and were only boron based life because these Devourers were bored of carbon based food. Imagine how degrading it would be if we found out that the human race had only been created so some aliens could have a ready supply of monkey burgers?
Then they discovered the Judicators and had to ditch their position in the galactic government to save themselves and the dimension they feel they have a major responsibility to maintaining. They hoped their explanation would taken seriously and their allies would understand. instead they were dismissed as jumping ship and the Waps, their longest ally, turns their backs on them and makes friends with Eldarisian.
A power the Persan know would be a very bad idea to let get close. Not only have the Persan fused organic and synthetics to a point the Eldarisian consider sinful (something that has done the Persan really nothing but good), but the Persan also secretly a Proud Race of Thieves and Whores (so to speak) as well as a Proud Soldier Race. They kno the Eldarisian will never accept them for what they are and will only accept them when they fit the Eldarisian vision of how they should be. Something that is unacceptable to the Persan.
Right now, the Waptoria feel incredibly betrayed too. They did get the Covenant of Mirus involved against the Scelus Purification (how can one ignore a threat so large?), but whe the Devourers came no one really realized the threat this time around. The Waptoria would've helped out but they were caught up in an (Hive of Mirus) invasion of their own and thus could not send aid.
They tried their very best to keep the Persan happy and satisfied, still trying to nurture them to a certain extend, only for them to say "screw it we're leaving" in the Waptorian's faces.
@Eco True, but its not like they much choice, but to leave. The Judicators were untouchable and by leaving they now have a fighting chance. They did try to explain things as best they could, but its Accel Space so there's only so much you can do considering that logic goes flying out the window. In any case their breaking from the Covenant will slowly cut the Judicators off, preventing them from gaining power from it. Allowing the Persan to safely rejoin the UAE one day.
@Eco - Alright, I wasn't sure if you where speaking from how you saw it, or your fiction. It actually does make sense for Zarbania to still get the blame, after all, they fought a war for many years with the UAE members, and are still not trusted. It's why the Zarbanians stay away from most politics and try to pull a balancing act when they have to.
Hi guys. I've been thinking a lot about military stuff and the balance of power recently and talking about it with a couple of users. I've updated France's order of battle to reflect reforms and expansion of the Grand Navy after the shocks of 2816. I also hope it's a lot more understandable now given the changes I've made to it. It is a comprehensive list of all of France's military assets and their location in the Gigaquadrant, and a very useful tool for strategic planning with France involved.
One of the things I wanted to talk about a little bit is relative military power in Mirus and Alcanti Triad grand strategy over the past ten years. From 2807 to 2816, Xonexi planners and policy makers needed to balance the amount of military power they should maintain in Mirus at any given time. They needed to have enough military assets that (1) a lone Mirusian native power wasn't just going to attack them, and that (2) it would be clear that a successful coalition against the Alcanti Triad would be difficult to assemble. However, Xonexi could not have too much force in Mirus because (3) it would be broadly threatening and precipitate undecided Mirusian states into coalition against Xonexi and make such a coalition easier to form, and (4) the Draconid Imperium and France, for different reasons, were incapable of investing large amount of military resources there.
As a result, the Alcanti Triad settled in 2807 on a 1:1 equivalence policy whereby each of them would (in theory) maintain a military force in Mirus equivalent to the most powerful Mirusian native state (barring the ULE). The key to this policy is that it takes (generally, this is a rule of thumb) three times more military power to attack than it does to defend. This is the result (from the theoretical point of view of Xonexi planners):
(1) Individual Alcanti Triad states are able to deter a surprise attack from a lone Mirusian native state, given that a defending force with a 1:1 equivalence with the attacker will tend to prevail.
(2) Individual Alcanti Triad states are incapable of launching a surprise attack on a lone Mirusian native states due to that same problem. The hope is that this would have shown that the Alcanti Triad have purely defensive intent, not offensive. Once you factor in that such an attack would spark an anti-Xonexi coalition, it is clear that such an attack isn't in the Triad's interests.
(3) An offensive coalition against the Alcanti powers would need to achieve a ratio of 9:3 in order to have a chance at carrying out a successful surprise attack. In other words, the coalition would need to gather 9 states with militaries of that caliber which are willing to put everything on the line, take immense risks, and pay a high price to carry out such an attack. The problems in orchestrating such a 9-nation coalition, irrespective of the fact that there are probable not 9 such states in Mirus, are immense in terms of coordination, diplomacy, motivation, and so on.
(4) However, the Alcanti Triad can launch an attack with a 3:1 force ratio if they act together against a rogue Mirusian state, which preserves their collective freedom of action.
IN PRACTICE, it's likely the policy would have worked out a bit differently than intended, and that's where your feedback comes in. On the Triad side, the Draconid Imperium was involved in the Third House War (a civil war) from 2806 to 2809, and thus could only field a 0.5:1 ratio. The TIAF therefore stepped in and made up the difference, fielding a 1.5:1 ratio from 2806 to 2810. France also encountered difficulties with its normalcy parliament under the Marier administration, which kept insisting on military budget cuts and unilateral withdrawals. France wasn't able to make 1:1 with conventional troops, so it created a reservist service in French Mirus which would mobilize the necessary units from the population to make up the difference. This had the benefit and the drawback of being slow to mobilize, which again indicated defensive intent but was unwieldy and risky in a crisis. It is likely, however, that France was disallowed from keeping up with Mendel militarization, which means that when the Mendel came knocking in 2810 the ratio was slightly skewed in their favor, a problem that was compounded by the lengthy reservist mobilization time and the poor quality of the troops that were produced. For France, 1:1 equivalence meant the deployment/maintenance of 2 naval corps, 2 army corps, 1 light naval corps, 1 void hunter corps, and 5 national guard corps in Mirus, plus defensive airpower.
This policy would be maintained after the Borealum Crisis, though the Draconis would succeed in making it to 1:1 equivalence and the TIAF would scale back from 1.5:1 to 1:1.
France would revisit its deployment in 2816 after the UPD's attack on its soil. It deployed the entire Grand Navy to Mirus for naval exercises, which threw the equivalence way off for six months. When it finished, it has decided to maintain a 2:1 ratio instead of 1:1, though this had a great emphasis on naval power as a shield against attack. France permanently based 2 more Naval Corps in Mirus, had French Godrine raise and maintain 1 Army Corps, and based 1 more Army Corps on Menento. In an effort to reduce the threat generated by a capital fleet composed of 4 naval corps, it instead split the armada into two smaller fleets which it parked at opposite ends of French Mirus's vast territory. They're close enough to communicate and rush to support each other in a time of crisis, but far enough apart that they can't feasibly engage in an offensive operation without first meeting up. As long as they remain apart, Mirusian powers have nothing to worry about. France has indicated that this 2:1 deployment is temporary and it intends to revisit it once the Covenant has been reformed.
Here are France's Mirusian dispositions in detail as of 2818. A detailed key can be found here and you can also hover over the icons to see what they are.
Mirus Command (MIRCOM) Marshal Franc de Guise - Teindas
Godrine Capital Fleet
Baako Capital Fleet
Mirusian Naval Guard
Please let me know what you think! I'd love feedback or just general thoughts on the above analysis. If a Mirusian power is uncomfortable with the above and wants to tell France "no, that's not okay, I'd like you to change it," I'd love to hear that to. France listens to that kind of thing.
@Charles Sounds good to me, by the way what do the orange stars mean? The Persan will be ultimately fine with it. one thing they will do is help the French develop an anti-Accel Space measure. They know they can't really tell the French no after they stormed Meneto and know that with by helping the French develop such methods they can alert the French to any potential damage they might cause to the other dimension. The Persan themselves have some rather unconventional means of countering Hyperspace.
I'm reworking the Boyk Nomads somewhat. Giving them a basis off the Mongol Empire that focuses on their more positive aspects instead of just making them Horse Riding Barbarians. Genghis Khan many have been extremely ruthless, but he was also very progressive. Also throwing the Vikings in the mix.
@Zilla Remember when I brought up having race filling in the power vacuum the Multus left and you mentioned you already had the Byzantoi Imperium? I've actually had an idea about that that involves the origin of the Boyk. Basically the way it goes is this.
The Byzantoi Imperium are having their war with the Ugandalorians are things are getting really desperate for them. After so searching the discover the Boyk and decide to uplift them to act as a fighting force to help them defeat the Ugandalorians. The Boyk prove shockingly brutal and ruthless helping the Byzantoi subdue the Ugandals. However their ruthless to the point of making the Byzantoi uncomfortable and rapidly spreading out of control causing the Byzantoi to reign them in with iron fist and by rather oppressive to the Boyk.
The Boyk get rather sick of this, break free, and turn on the Byzantoi. This along with the Byzantoi's general stagnation and degradation only quickens their down fall in Mirus. This leads to a Byzantoi general going on a genocidal rampage against the Boyk that is so destructive it actually creates the hyperspacial rift the boarders Persan Western Mirus territory and reduces the Boyk to nomads with most of their history destroyed. This event is what gets the Byzantoi kicked out of Mirus by the Observers.
@Zillafire101 : No problem at all, I understand. I was just trying to raise awareness about the fact that the Gorge Dispute (now with a summary at the top) is going on. I often get comments that people had wished that they knew an event was happening as it was happening so they could get involved, so that's why I'm pushing it. Is there anything about it you'd like to know more about?
@Zilla For shame. In any case plot point idea for the Mendel Schism. Basically it involves the Persan giving Kirta the chance to forge a Vorpalium blade. Description below.
Asterdermis when forged into a blade and soaked in the blood of an individual and then plunged by said individual into Accel Space it will take on unique properties. When plunged into Accel Space the destructive power of Accel Space and the blood givers force of will battle for dominance. If the blood giver's will is not strong enough then the blade will explode killing them. However if the blood giver's will wins out then the Asterdermis will be transformed into a black and red metal called Vorpalium that can channel the user's will to reduce whatever target the blade strikes into impotent, intransmutable dust. The blades power can only be channeled by the original blood giver or their descendants. Vorpalium blades are extremely rare.
Basically if she can do this she'll have the Persan's undying loyalty and even privy to the secrets of Accel Space.
@Gorzill - Yeah, that would be awesome. She can carry it along with the Koatria hammer Gridlock is going to give to her as a gift. Perhaps she can use it at the end against the Hand, alongside her dad's sword that Phase-hunter gives her once he's done training her.
Another future plot point I have is following the illegitimate son of Barda from when he was a young bounty hunter. I don't wanna give too much away, but I basically want to follow the Clett family down the line, each successive generation becoming more badass then the last.
@All - Just one more reminder guys, you're free to add your parts to the Mendel Schism and how the other nations react to the Hand, I don't wanna continue without every nation/race getting their "fair share".
@Zilla: The Waptoria won't really have much to say, with W'tze being dead and Angand'r being with the New Enlightenment. On that matter I though we could RP their reaction since we all have a share in there. https://titanpad.com/1wfh4OsjMh -> Pad.
By the way change to the plan of Mirus Divided. Basically this is going further into the Vanara's back story and revealing the twist that the Vanara were never intended to be the Persacron's descendants, that honor was supposed to go to a more peaceful race, psychotic and sadistic. However Tandaris, Ava, and Warlord Argent realized that with Leless and the Scelus having gone rouge, and the Devourers and Qliphoggr's fragments out there, a race of living weapons was needed.
Basically what happens is that the race that was supposed to be the Persacron's descendants appears in Mirus and starts making friends. They're a very peaceful bunch called the Afonire with a utopian society, just one thing they want to commit genocide on the Persan and are being manipulated by Norman Page who is being retconned as an adviser to the Afonire's leader. Other than this same basic plot.
@Charles this shouldn't screw up the occupation Meneto I have a plan for that.
The Persan invade Meneto and occupy it without a fight.
The French aren't able to get mobilized at the moment, but the Afornire are and get the French to allow them to fight the Persan until the French get mobilized.
The Persan meanwhile, with their skill at zanny schemes, set up a system of cloaking devices and hardlight holograms to make colonized worlds in Meneto seem uninhabited and uncolonized worlds look colonized and like the persan have already set up shop.
The Afonire attack and the Persan goad them into several serious violations of the Zadkiel Conventions.
The French get to Meneto and seeing what the Afonire have done attack them leaving the Afonire wedged between the French offense and the persan defense.
The Afonire forces in Meneto are destroyed and the Persan turn back the territory to French right away, revealing their cloaking devices and holograms deception before heading off to drive the Afonire away from the area around their space once and for all.
All events are basically going to play out as planned the factions name and nature just changes. I'm really not sure how this changes everything. The Persan still occupy Meneto. That and I wasn't very satisfied with DEC, every time I looked at them I cringed. This also gives me an opportunity to expand on the Vanara having a cursed existence plot thread I've come up with.
It changes everything because everything is changed. >.< The details of how the events unfolded, from the Persan occupation of Menento to the DEC combined navy's defeat in open space north of the Mendel Dominatus territory mattered in how France subsequently responded, and the hundreds of modifications they subsequently made to their grand strategy and their thinking. I've written in detail about these changes, Gorzill, and they've informed how France has acted over two in-universe years.
It's also not consistent with the original series of events, in which France didn't mobilize. Mobilization is when you begin to scramble military assets in preparation for imminent combat. The only military move that was consciously made by Teindas military command was to order a rebasing of the French Mirusian Fleet to the Dragowar territories. Then they completely lost control. The whole fiasco was over before French leaders could even judge whether a sizable mobilization of forces was necessary, which contributed greatly to the sense of disorientation, impotence, and unpreparedness that caused the French to not only reevaluate their Mirusian policy, but to fundamentally rethink power in general in the aftermath.
The way to do it would be to have the events happen in exactly the manner and order we agreed upon, swapping out the DEC for the Afonire. Ideally, we should try to make the equivalence match up as closely as possible so the events maintain their internal logic and we don't end up with plotholes or set pieces acting irrationally.
At the same time, I realize that you want to throw out the DEC, which means that you might not want to be constrained by its general form. One of the major points to may attention to is the preconditions for the seizure of Menento. Originally, the move made sense in the context of an elaborate plan to lure the DEC into attacking France head on, believing it had a coalition of Mirusian states to back it up. The key element here was that the UPD was trying to get around Covenant guarantees in order to be able to prosecute a war against the DEC without being ganked by all of Mirus. If this logic no longer works for what you'd like to do, I'm not sure the modified story is possible. It might just be best to leave Mirus Divided as it is, not write it in full (just a summary on pages), and go make another story centering around the Afonire.
Then just change the name, keep the plot. Problem solved.
Name changes should be allowed, and if I might be blunt, I like this version much better. From my own experience, making a story that isn't enjoyable for one ends up being unenjoyable for all.
This thing hasn't even happened yet, the Persan attack is still there (so the French reaction would still be the same), and this is a lot more realistic than a human leading a bunch of non-human empires.
"This thing hasn't even happened yet" - It has, though. I've already moved on, and I would like it to be at least recognized that this creates a ton of unnecessary problems for me. Gorzill originally really wanted to do this story, so I bent over backwards to make it work. We spent a lot of time and finalized that plan, and I based subsequent fiction on it. Are we really turning around now and gleefully taking a dump on the work that we did, without even the tiniest bit of conscientiousness or apology?
Please, please, please keep this in mind when you retcon. Yes, retcons happen, and sometimes they are necessary. But you need to be really careful that you're not totally screwing someone over in the process, and doing so in a way that (to add insult to injury) is incredibly rude and insensitive to the problems that were just created.
"the Persan attack is still there (so the French reaction would still be the same)" - If what I mentioned above falls through, yes. Though again, as I've explained three times now, the Persan attack is not the only important piece of the story.
Yeah and now my back hurts. In any case there are several reasons i really would rather not just write Mirus Divided in the summery page and why I don't want to use DEC at all.
I don't want to just have another one and done villain. Avoiding this is why I created the Scelus Purification and why I'm not truly killing off Qliphoggr, just breaking it down into even smaller fragments.
I generally prefer my warring factions to be either foils to each other or represent certain thematic conflicts (i.e. I want my warring factions to be more then just warring factions).
In the case of the Vanara/Saucerian/Collective Singularity both they and the Persan are very transhuman (for lack of better term) and believe in survival of fittest. However while the Singularity believes that survival of fittest means the strong should prey on and eliminate the weak to grow stronger, the Persan on the other hand believe they must help the weak become strong. Also Singularity transhumanism has created immense social inequality and a fascist caste system in which few are given even free will, for the Persan it has given them greater social equality and quality of life.
Persan vs Scelus is basically individualism vs collectivism and Persan vs Afonire is supposed to be saints vs sinners, cursed and damned vs blessed, questioning and analyzing about what that actually means.
Also the Afonire are basically me taking the things people seem to think make a benevolent nation (democratic, peace and freedom loving, etc) and take to an extreme that subverts it. The DEC is not capable of doing that.
However I do have solution for you. basically it goes like this the Afonire hate the Vanara and want them dead, the Scelus also hate the Vanara and want them dead. Basically the two forge an alliance in secrete and when the Persan occupy Meneto agree to attack the Persan together. However the Scelus go off the rails and attack France instead basically taking the place of what would have been the DEC attack on France. Information on the Scelus can be found here -> Fiction:Scelus Purification, Creature:Scelus.
I'm merely just slightly annoyed by this situation. As a result, no, at present I'm absolutely not gleeful. If I gave that impression, pardon me. On the other hand, it's also quite insulting to insinuate I'd so gladly screw you over, especially when I'm not. Keep that in mind as well. All I'm trying to do is to moderate; to help find a solution to the current problem you two are facing.
I propose the following; @Charles: You post the parts of the story that you absolutely want to keep. All of it, parts of it, whatever it is. Let's start there. Gorzill is taking in your criticisms, making the Afonire, unlike the DEC, do what you told democratic nations would do. He's trying to straighten your back again, so to speak. @Gorzill: You comment on the parts Charles wants to keep, if that's fine by you or not. That way, we'll try to find a solution.
@Charles This is where the emphasis the UPD places on supernatural forces can come in. In essence they take things like prophecies and the like very seriously (they haven't exactly let anyone in on this secrete) so if they get a prophecy stating that they interpret as, "attack Meneto to get the Afonire to blow their cover" they'll do just that.
Also the have the concept of nonsense tied to their very being and can make logical leaps that have no connection yet some how end up being the thing that needed to be done.
@Charles Also I'm a pretty offended that you assume I've blatantly just ignore what would inconvenience you, I'm not a sociopath. I fact I've given it quite a bit of consideration and have honestly tried to change as little as possible while still changing enough to make me happy with what I'm dealing with, doesn't look like I've succeeded though. Keep in mind I have to balance out you wants with my own and that's not an easy thing especially considering that no two people are going to agree on what that looks like. I'm me and not you so if I unintentionally skewed to my needs well then I can assure you I didn't mean to and I'm sorry.
First off I would like to clarify that originally I want to decannonize Mirus Divided and start from scratch, but I realized that would screw you over if i did so and since that was no something I wanted at all I chose instead tried to weave my new idea into the old plan as best as I could (no way could have known that though I suppose). Anyway when I did propose the idea I felt like you shot me down with so much as an ounce of consideration and when I asked for an explanation I felt like you treated me a bit like a idiot for realizing what thought be obvious.
Simply put there was no way I could have known that the DEC attack was a critical part of the equation since you never brought it up as such. When the event is talked about on the French Empire page the UPD isn't even mentioned by name just refereed to as a Mirusian power, which is inaccurate as the UPD does not originate from Mirus.
After you explained that however I did ask for suggestions and start thinking up a solution on my own, but I haven't had much time since I've been studying for a chemistry test, writing an essay, and dealing with parents who are at it (again) because of election results. Once again though I will acknowledge there was no way you could known that.
I know you didn't intend to treat me like a sociopath or an idiot, but it felt like that. I will also admit I'm rather inept when it comes to everyday social skills and I do try to work with other people and compromise, but I don't have the greatest of success rates. So when I fail and feel like my intentions were misinterpreted its really off putting for me, more so then most perhaps.
I just wanted to make my feeling and intentions known and didn't mean any offense.
@Charles I would also like to explain in greater detail why I decided to replace the DEC with the Affonire, and well its not something that is easy for me to talk about so that's why it never came up before, but you deserve to know so here goes.
I didn't really have a great or healthy childhood. I was a odd kid and perceived as creepy and abnormal by my peers so I got bullied a lot. My difficulties with expressing my emotions and tendency to go into melt down didn't help and just made things worse (I would never act mad just say I'm mad in monotone). I ended up developing depression, let myself be used a few times as I had zero self confidence, and eventually made an attempt on my life.
I'm better now and getting counselling and all that, as well as having develop some actual friends and have developed healthy relationships with others. However this stuff takes time and one of the ways I have helped the process along is by putting aspects of my experience to my fiction usually in a way most don't recognize. It makes it easier to face the experience and work my way through it. Basically the Affonire allow me to do this where as the DEC do not.
I never wanted to screw you over and I am sorry I made you feel that way. I want to make this work in a way that allows me to help my healing along and you to keep your plan on tract, but I need your help if I'm going to avoid screwing you over. Like Eco suggested tell me want you need to happen and I'll figure something out, if what I figure out doesn't work give me a reason why and I'll figure something else out.
Thanks for the link Gorzill. Long time no talk fellas.
I've fixed my email isssue so i should be recieving notifications for once. Big edits arent possible for me now but i have thought of doing sort of a Volver vs Blood Knights final push that takes place before the Mendel Civil War.
The key plot points that should be known are that Brygon has let his mind slip into the void, causing him to act a bit irrationally. He orders a mass attack on the Blood Knight headquarters to take out Anthil and any leaders that would be present. This is battle was supposed to take place during the last war we all worked on but unfortunately i got tangled up in my responsibilities outside the wiki so i never got to write it in that war.
So i figured a battle with its own page would be more fitting.
@Charles One last thing about Mirus Divided that I don't think will change anything, but just be safe I'm going to run it by you before hand because it is a big deal. Okay so the France forces the Affornire to pay reparations (I'll assume that's still part of the deal) for what they've done, however the Affonire counter by revealing the truth about of something rather disturbing about the Vanara reproduction cycle.
Basically the thing to understand is that only a few Vanara females are actually fertile, this is actually due to a curse then a genetic quirk so science can't really remove it. And as the generations go on the number of fertile females becomes less and less. In order to handle this problem the Vanara must infect other sentient species with a virus that is tied to their very being and when it infects a host it causes that host to be born as a Vanara/other species hybrid that usually ends up killing its parents in an instinctual rage and the seeking out other Vanara to take care of it.
Basically the Affonire reveal that every seven generations or so (they have a grace period of thirteen, but try to stay ahead of the curb) the Persan mass virus bomb species that have not yet achieved interstellar communication and travel causing the next generation of that species to slaughter the previous generation and then join the Persan to help revitalize the fertility of the Vanara race. What the Affonire leave out though is that the Persan specifically target races that are going to go extinct anyway and there is nothing else that can be done. Also that the Persan are working to break the curse and that there is hope in one particular Vanara's lineage that seems to carry and immunity to the curse.
Does this drastically change any of your plans and how would the French react to this news?
Raptoraneans - Yay, we have the same problem (but then with males) and a simmilar solution (but then with plasmids). Our hybrids aren't psychos either.
Rest of the Waptoria - FUUUU! Like, seriously, virus bombing even doomed species goes against everything we care about. The Hegemony was right all along - we actually want war now, you genocidical freaks.
Rebel Consuls - Whelp. We've seen enough of the Imperium of War to know where this leads to.
(For the record, I like it, but I can't see these three doing just that. Makoro might also be doomed now.)
@Gorzill It depends on how they go about it. If it reaches the general French public during a time of anti-UPD hysteria (as is the case after the seizure of Menento), it'll only fuel the fire. In practical terms, this would increase the grace period that the French government will need to impose on itself before improving relations with the UPD.
If it doesn't reach the French public, no action.
I apologize for the delay, I turn in one of my essays today and might have time to discuss MD further.
Well to be fair its not just inheriant Vanara nature. That plays a big part, but its also a combination of prejudice and paranoia against the mutants, as well as parents who are both weaker then their offspring and have no idea how to handle emotionally unstable offspring prone to meltdowns where they lash out without realizing what their doing. Relatively peaceful assimilation has happened in the past, but the Affonire leave that critical bit out. Makoro would be fine as long as Niyra's there to intervene should things go south for the first three months, they level out (relatively speaking) after that.
@Charles Oh yeah I get that, collage very important. I think it should reach the public then. I want this event to have maximum impact. How they would get it there is the question that I'm not sure i have an answer for though. I was going to stick something up on the universal discussion board and see what fireworks, if any, go up.
@Zilla By the way do you still have those pngs of the Voranax and Skrulking with the creepy and cute parts removed? If you do could you post up ac downloadable versions of those. I'm going to be redesigning the Voranax to be named after and loosely based on my favorite mythological creature Al-mi'raj.
Zarbania will react uncertainly, many of the more radical elements demanding they break relations, but Gridlock and the rest will want the whole story, not trusting these strangers who came out of nowhere to tell them this.
The Mendel are going to be a bit shocked. But, ultimately, they trust their allies, and, like Zarbania, want the full story.
Yeah the Affonire will have pissed everyone off by a fair degree by trying to genocide the Vanara. in any case the Vanara will be more then happy to explain the situation and even let them in on a little project to recover the DNA of the races they absorb as best they can and then reseed them. It's not going well, but their trying.
I also plan on another side story, this one following Takanius, and his being rescued by Jallas and his team. Basically, Terikalinra and his minions are trying to kill Takanius at every turn, in order to keep him from manifesting his energy. Basically, think Mask of Light, but a little more mature and dark.
(Back from Thanksgiving, hoping to talk about Mirus Divided soon).
It might help to know exactly to what extent the different Mirusian states are stating that they will support the Talven Empire as it threatens war with France, under what conditions, and whether these assurances are public or private. The Talva-Mirusian meeting took place in 2810, and the Talva will make a break for it in 2818, long after the end of the Mendel Civil War, Mirus Divided, and the Franco-Waptorian alliance.
@Gorzill For Mirus Divided, has your thinking evolved or am I good to respond to what has been posted earlier?
@Charles: The Waptorian position is basically "keep the war out of Mirus as much as possible", and their assurances to Talva are strictly private. Quite like Talva, they first and foremost hope to use this war as leverage to create further equality amongst the Mirusian powers and in the gigaquadrant at large, but do not look to them for open conflict - instead they hope to act as negotiators and peacebrokers when the time comes.
@Charles As far as Mirus Divided goes nothing that will affect France or the Invasion of Menento has changed, I'm just looking for a different name since I think Mirus Divided would be a better name for a whole story arc starting with the Persan leaving the Covenant and ending... I'm sure where. I wanna clear some stuff with Eco. But no nothing that will affect France has changed.
As far as Marinus' Rebellion goes while the Persan's assurances to the Talva are private their personal support for Marinus' vision is public. The Persan do not agree with France's foreign policies. Their not the opposites of France when it comes to foreign policy, they more fall somewhere in the middle.
If it does come down to war Persa's support will be largely indirect, basically what they did during the First War of the Mirusian Coalition and trading the Talva their technology. If things start to go poorly for the Talva then the Persan could more directly step in.
Right now Persan philosophy is adapt as events transpire. The anti-Xonexi sentiment has died down by then and it's more a case of they just don't agree with France.
@Charles - The Mendel stance is going to shift more moderately under Kirta and the two new High Rulers elected after the HoR. There still will be some anti-Xonexi sentiment, but most of it will have calmed down, though, of course, the sentiment is still there, kind of. So they'll be less likely to pick up arms now.
@Eco I was just thinking that we should hold off on Operation Phoenix until after the events of Marinus' Rebellion have transpired. I would rather not bring the UAE back to render it defunct again by something. I doubt that would happen, but just in case let's not put all our legs in one basket.
@Gorzill: That was my intention as well. The formation of the Mirusian Triumvirate, Mendel Shism, Hegemony's Fall, Mirus Divided and Marinus' Rebellion mostly form a single story arc that needs to be finished first.
I'm also thinking of making pages for those Hegemony successors Patriot established, but keeping things plain and largely undefined, to do him a favor and give him something to work with should he return.
I'm still alright with the rebellion. Not much has really changed internally with Eldarisia though, this Marko war can of course stir something up. The only difference is that Eldarisia is meeting with Waptoria and trying to get along.
Hegemony's Fall is a substory of the Mendel Shism, and it's events are right what it says on the tin. Mirus Divided is the Persan's Triumvirate-backed move against the Covenant of Mirus, and Marinus' Rebellion is (more or less) it's intergalactic continuation against the established Xonexi order as a whole, launched by the Talven Empire.
All in all, Mirus is to a lesser or greater degree on the side of Talva, though the Waptoria are somewhat torn.
Operation Phoenix happens after Marinus' Rebellion and is basically the New Enlightenment reaching out to both the Mirusian Triumvirate and the Covenant of Mirus to rebuild the Enlightenment Alliance, the revival of which they see as the only way to establish a lasting peace in Mirus. After that, eastern Mirus exploration probably happens.
Come 2817-2818, Anan's government would have begun responding to the Talven buildup in the southern Milky Way with its own contingencies, renewing old defensive alliances and consulting broadly with its partners. However, while France will make moves to assure its own security and ability to respond defensively to the Talven Empire, it will explicitly renounce the steps it would need to take to be able to offensively overcome the Talven mainland's considerable defenses.
At that point, France would very much think of the Talven problem as a Milky Way issue. The considerable Talven buildup of offensive capabilities in the southern Milky Way, where no threat exists, caused great unease among the states of that region which feel that they might themselves fall victim to these new capabilities. In order to avoid a galactic arms race and an unnecessary war, France and the DCP stepped in as the Protectors of the Milky Way and attempted to negotiate with the Talva to reduce its offensive arms while finding ways to improve its security by other means. This conception assumed that Marinus' buildup was defensive in nature, a reaction to a perceived threat from France or other Milky Way states.
As they would soon find out through negotiation, Marinus' buildup was offensive in nature, not defensive; revisionist in its intentions, not status quo. Due to the mechanics of how militarization and economic mobilization works, they were turning themselves into a ticking time bomb. I can go into the economics of this in more detail if you're interested, but the short of it is that there will be a very narrow window where Talven arms will exceed that of France, and where the Talva could initiate war and inflict maximum damage (but victory is extremely unlikely). That window is when Marinus' hand in negotiation is strongest.
However, that window is short for two reasons:
After a decade of total economic mobilization towards the manufacture of arms, the Talven economy is about to encounter serious economic problems which will see its power, cohesion, and warfighting capability collapse under its own weight.
The French Empire, an economy several times the size of the Talven Empire, can overtake it in arms fairly quickly once it awakens to the offensive threat posed by the Talven Empire by initiating its own buildup on a full tank of gas. The Talva, on the other hand, are on their last reserves.
All of this creates a situation where the Talva have a very limited window to carry out negotiations with the Milky Way. Too early, and France is able to prematurely understand the real situation, abandon its hedging strategy, initiate its arms buildup, and make it impossible for the Talva to overtake them at all. Too late, and the Talva lose everything as their economy crumbles.
This means that if Marinus can't get what he wants out of negotiations with the DCP and France, he has to attack, even if there is no chance of victory. The real effort is through negotiations, and the real leverage is the threat of war against two hyperpowers who are confident of their victory but willing to pay a cost to avoid it. Should war actually break out, Marinus would have failed and nothing will come of it. France and the DCP are willing to extend to the Talven Empire recognition and acceptance in varied forms, though the Talva have yet to tell me concretely what they actually want from all of this, so I'm in the dark about that.
One of the things France will be doing in Mirus is talking to the Mirusians about the situation in the Milky Way, seeking their input, and asking them upfront what they intend to do if violence breaks out. It will make it clear that it has no interest in attacking the Talven Empire outright, that it would lose all of its support should it initiate such a strike. But it will be forthright about its concern (French planners are losing sleep over this) that an attack on the Milky Way might inspire an attack in Mirus, understanding very well the temptation for many to see this crisis as a make-it-or-break-it moment to defect from cooperation and dash for a 'Mirusia First' outcome. Anan personally has the utmost respect for that thinking and empathizes with it given that the pressure to defect is something that all states experience all the time.
But in this case, it needs to be recognized that the chances of miscalculation are very high and the stakes are even higher. We can only navigate this successfully through cooperation: Xonexi and Mirus need to implement measures to narrow the chances of one side or another making a tragic miscalculation and causing another potentially devastating Mirusian war.
While the Persan are willing to negotiate they will still side with Marinus simply because they want the status quo disrupted. the Milky Way is of major concern for them since their homeland is there and their not happy with the Grand Commonwealth of Sovereign States claiming galactic governance over the Milky Way and have declared that the Persan Expanse (the old territory of their Precursors the Persacron) to be utterly independent and in no way obligated to the GCSS or their laws in any way shape or form. The Scelus agreed with them. Yes that's right the Persan and the Scelus agreed on something.
They see France's and the DCP's claim to being Protectors of the Milky Way as hubris of the highest order and think that Frances is sticking its nose in places where it doesn't belong and should mind its own business. France's policy of Liberal internationalism is something they are very much opposed to.
Once again they will negotiate, but they are far more willing to use violence if they feel it necessary. One of the issues France faces is that the Persan don't really regard peace as all that great, they don't think that war is any better just that war and peace are equally awful. Also their economy and society is auto-evolving into something very strange and alien, almost eldritch.
Also Vanara in particular perceive time slower, one year to us is seven to them and with augments the other races have had their perception of time slowed just as much. This allows them to move and act at a much faster rate.
In any case what the Vanara want is to keep galactic government out of the Persan expanse and the East of Mirus (a promise they made to the Trahoxi) and be granted the ability to deal forcibly with threats to Accel Space which they are very dependent on and view as a their personal responsibility.
Also keep in mind these are the thoughts and opinions of the Persan not mine. the only thing for me really is indeed keeping galactic government out of the East and North of Mirus since I really enjoy the whole lawless galaxy setting with never ending conflict (I like dark settings) and would like to keep that at least somewhere.
You mentioned that the Persan want to reform the Covenant of Mirus with a more democratic decision making system, right? One where each state has an equal vote, nobody has an unfair blanket veto, and the power of large states is beholden to the majority?
That too since they regard that as more effective. Also meetings are agonizingly slow for them due to how slow they perceive time. Imagine sitting in a room while....... everyone..... talks..... like..... this.
Charles Murray wrote:
You mentioned that the Persan want to reform the Covenant of Mirus with a more democratic decision making system, right? One where each state has an equal vote, nobody has an unfair blanket veto, and the power of large states is beholden to the majority?
It's less that and the fact they don't want anyone else dictating policy on what they regard as their inheritance. Also they don't want anyone interfering with them and the Scelus fighting over who is the true Descendants of the Person and who's Path to Survival is the true one.
Basically both are only willing to settle their ideological dispute with the other thoroughly beaten and aren't willing to accept anything else.
Nobody is dictating policy to anyone, though, nor telling those two to stop fighting. The Grand Commonwealth of *Sovereign* States has as its core principle that of sovereignty, that states should be secure from external dictation and tampering. It is there to defend that principle, actually. From whom? France and the DCP, coincidentally.
I thought part of the point of these galactic governments was to prevent wars of aggression.This is fundamentally what the Persan Scelus conflict is, both powers are trying to kick the other out simply because both are unwilling to coexist and are unwilling to give any quater to rhe other.
The page for the GCSS comes across a little vagueto me, I don't have much to go on.
Ah the Persan perception has certainly been skewed then as the events surrounding the Covenant of Mirus has made them more hostile to galactic governments on principle. There is still the fact though they want to disrupt the status quo simply because they do not want a stable status quo of any sort really, it's in their very nature.
May not be relevant but I recently had an epiphany about what the true over arcing conflict of my entire fiction is. Basically its those who wish to create a perfect world vs those who wish to experience the tragedy and beauty of the world they have to the fullest extent. Take a guess who's who.
@Zilla By the way I was thinking of the Persan sending to two Sephirah Hosts to help take down the Hegemony and then having them join the Rebel Enclaves when those form until the Hand is defeated. Hows that sound?
@Gorzill The vast majority of those things I had absolutely no control over and no say in >.< If I am to be completely honest, it really feels like an invisible hand is creating elaborate reasons as to why the Persan should be "justified" in being genocidal towards France despite its every attempt to make things better. Every time a new criticism comes up, France accepts it and makes the changes that are asked of it. Then the invisible hand swoops in to correct this deviation and the Persan appear just as mad as they were before, except at something totally new, perfectly upsetting, and acting like it was a factor the whole time.
The technology thing in particular, I really feel cheated. The Persan gave me a list of things they wanted, notably replicators, trade, exchange programs with French universities, etc, and I gave them all of those things and kept offering more trade, more exchange, and more cooperation. The Persa made that deal, they asked for what they were getting and it's not my fault they were incapable of doing anything with that technology afterward. All of this for former Dominatus territory which was taken from the XA -by force-, and which France was in a good position to take back -by force-. Every step of the way, France has dealt in good faith, and I'm really sick of the invisible hand twisting everything, conveniently forgetting key facts, and inventing reasons for the Xonexi-Mirus hatred to continue, when France and I have bent over backwards to do everything the Mirusians have asked of us. This is getting really unfair, and really unreasonable, both ICly and OOCly.