Use an incoming transmission on the talk page to negotiate the trade with the house of Horatio. Also, I would like to eventually have the Narkal Alliance allied with the Talven Empire. It would slowly happen over time due to trade. Perhaps N.E. 25 would work to finish the alliance?
I felt it would worth leaving a notice here to say that I'm returning to the wiki.
More importantly, I'd like to apologise for the abruptness of my departure last year. The events on and off the wiki that led to it were probably inevitable, but there are certainly some that I should have foreseen and I suspect I could have done much more to avoid this outcome. So, to the users I left in the middle of collaborations, I am really sorry for any inconvenience I have caused.
As such, I am very happy to prioritise any previously ongoing collaborations over next few weeks, should anyone wish to resume work on them.
I know you've been inactive for several months now, but I wanted to put something up on the message wall just in case. I've been thinking about the Talva-Edict conflict and I have some propositions for a reboot, addressing what could provoke the war and where it would take place, especially with the Edict being on a different galactic arm from the Talva.
If you're up for collaboration again, just let me know. Thanks.
As I'm currently working on the Medwedian Democratic Federation, which borders you in the Lower Sagittarius Arm, I'm interested in writing about several wars. Medwedia is a totalitarian, hyperexpansive militaristic dictatorship while your empire is, according to my understanding, a trade-based society that is quite federalized and decentralized but protects its homeland.
I imagine that Medwedia and the Talven Empire could clash for resource-rich planets, using superweapons in short conflicts that are followed by periods of cold war. Alternatively, we could have a constant state of war and territorial changes like in Orwell's 1984. I imagine that 100-200 planets could lie within a "contested zone", being populated by a mix of Medwedian and Talva colonists constantly fighting eachother in guerilla wars while our space fleets battle for the planets in orbit. Every 10 to 20 years, a planet is conquered by the enemy, only to be reconquered several years later. As Medwedia is constantly enlarging its army and producing military supplies in astronomic amounts, I imagine that the constant war could serve as a "dump" for those resources and for propaganda purposes while it would play a similar purpose in the Talven Empire.
Alright; although I should warn you that I'll be away from the wiki from tomorrow to the 12th of August.
The Talva are unlikely to make use of superweapons, although they are willing to make use of planetary bombardment. Otherwise, I don't particularly mind which form the cold war takes. Are you still happy for this to take place before 2800 AD?
It might also be worthwhile creating a pad to organise all of our ideas for this.
I would be happy for this to take at any time. See Ghelæ's message wall, I've been discussing some storylines that involve planets being nuked and strip-mined to become irradiated lava balls, a pirate-infested DMZ and planetary descension.
BTW can I add the Lower Sagittarius Arm navbox to the Talven Empire page and add Medwedia to your relation list?
I've also created a page for the first war I'll be writing, the "First Medwedian-Talven War". Let's say it happened around 100-200 years ago, maybe in the early 2600's? Our empires were much smaller than they are today, so we could use our old plan for a "Contested Planet Skrimish", limiting the war to 5-10 systems and ending it in a normal peace treaty. An interesting story would be if the planet were separated into two halves as a result of the peace treaty, making it a surface border between two space empires! It would probably be a giant wall.
The Talven Empire is somewhat less dystopian than Medwedia, so they'd almost certainly be attempting to evacuate their colonists. Perhaps their interest in the contested space could be due to the need for a buffer zone against Medwedia, and possibly due to the presence of colonies from low Tier civilizations such as the one that you mentioned earlier?
Good idea. Or we could go with our old plan: Medwedia discovers gold/platinum/uranium/unobtanium on Olchus, captures the planet in a quick blitzkrieg action that involves the destruction of its moon using a fusion bomb, resulting in the planet becoming uninhabitable and Medwedia starting to brutally strip-mine it. The Talven Empire is angered by this atrocity - partially because of its brutality, partially because it was itself interested in the planet, blockading the planet after the Medwedian conquest fleet departs and only leaves the mining vessels and small escorts behind. The miners, unable to return home, call for help, and a Medwedian fleet is dispatched again, breaking the blockade and beginning the war.
Do you think the Zagresi Empire/Cooperative and the Stellar Union would play a role in the war? Would the then-existing Seven Starr Alliance intervene?
Another question: is the Slukatian Empire located in our region, possibly neighborint Medwedia/the Talven Empire? If yes, it could also play a role in the war. I read that you sort of uplifted them, giving them technology. Maybe you could have given them FTL travel/a desperately neede cure for a deadly virus in return for military support against Medwedia?
How about a series of wars (that sounds good for the first) slowly growing in length and magnitude until the contested space is rendered mostly uninhabitable and the last war breaks down to a stalemate?
I don't think the user who owns the Slukatian Empire is active at the moment, and the interaction between them and the Talva was relatively recent (in-universe), almost certainly taking place after 2800.
Okay. So we'll have a long story arc of multiple wars. The first war (the article I created) would be 4 years long, taking -place between 2614 and 2618, maybe just half a century after Talven-Medwedian first contact and basically a minor war for resources, taking place in 5-10 systems and not provoking intervention. It ends in a peace treaty and normalization of relations. Then there would be a period of 40-60 years of deterioating relations (due to border disputes and extensive expansion on the Medwedian side that could provoke the Talva) that would then result in a second, slightly longer war that would be more destructive than the first and involve genocide, concentration camps and superweapons on the Medwedian side, making the Talven Empire unite with the Zagresi and the Stellar Union. The war would again end in a peace treaty, maybe after both sides destroy one or two inhabited planets of the enemy. Then a cold war would follow again, lighting up in the Third Medwedian-Talven War (Great Sagittarius War?), around 2720, that would then result in the brutal nuking and strip-mining and would first start out as a 1984-esque "slow war" that we discussed before starting to cool down around 2785, resulting in a peace treaty in 2800. The current state would then be a cold war, with both sides secretly preparing for the next conflict and forging secret alliances with more powerful nations. The fourth war then could take place around the year 2900-3000.
The Fiction Universe is currently at 2820-2825, and seems to be moving forwards at a rate of roughly one in-universe decade for every out-of-universe year. The Talven Empire has grown significantly more powerful since 2800, largely due to increased trade with foreign powers. But while I'm not sure about the fourth war, everything else seems fine (if TheDinoHunter is happy to take part in this).
I do actually have plans that could lead to drastic improvements in the relations between the Talva and Medwedia; I'll be AFK for roughly half an hour, but I can go into more detail when I get back.
(I tend to use "Talvo" rather than "Talven" in the context of wars and treaties).
Regarding post-2800 relations, I should provide some context. Our original plan placed the intervention of foreign powers at the end of the (final) war, which led to significant changes in the Talven Empire's foreign policy. The High Councilor at that time, Balbus Marinus, began to open the Empire up to trade with a multitude of other nations, and the Talva became more active in Xonexian politics. Perceived instability in the status quo resulted in Marinus attempting to form a coalition against its center, the Xonexi Board of Six. The militarization of the Talven Empire led once more to foreign intervention, and in the Votum Negotiations of 2818, it was agreed that the Talva would represent those that felt exploited in the status quo as a member of the Board, after undergoing demilitarization and reformations to give its people more direct control of the government. This in turn freed up Talven merchant guilds, allowing them to pursue their own interests outside of Talven borders.
Currently, certain merchant guilds would be particularly interested in trade with powers such as Medwedia. The Talven government would be forced to overlook this due to their obligation to support such powers. As the merchant guilds gain more political power, this may lead to better relations between the two nations (potentially at the expense of certain portions of the Talven population).
So let's line out the events of the beginning of the war. My proposal is:
Late 2500's: First contact between Medwedia, the Talven Empire and the Olchian Union (the OU is a planetary state that has STL ships).
2605: Medwedian surveyors discover immense deposits of uranium on Olchus.
2613: The President orders for Olchus to be "put under Medwedian sovereignity".
2614: A small invasion fleet is quickly assembled and is sent to Olchus. Instead pfcontacting the government of Olchus and offering them to surrender and join the Medwedian Democratic Federation, the fleet simply attacks Olchus. A 100-gigaton fusion bomb destroys the small moon of Olchus, sending debris towards the planet and killing millions of civilians. The fleet then proceeds to invade Olchus in a blitzkrieg operation and meets resistance only in the form of Olchian sub-orbital interceptors. Olchus formally surrenders after several hours.
After the invasion: Medwedian military rule is established; the invasion fleet returns home and large mining machines arrive. The planet, now sunk in nuclear winter and into a post-apocalyptic state, is subject to large-scale strip mining. The powerless Olchons can only watch as they are left to die of starvation and earthquakes. Cities become ruins.
Having heard of the events, the Talven Empire condemns the Medwedian Democratic Federation, blockading the orbit of Olchus. Medwedian cargo ships, unable to return home, send a signal for help, fearing that the Talva steal their valuable uranium.
The President sends a fleet to break the blockade and escort the cargo vessels home. The Talven fleet is ordered to retreat at pain of a war declaration. The Talven emperor refuses to give in and shortly after that recieves a formal declaration of war. In the meantime, the Talven and Medwedian fleets exchange first shots above Olchus.
Good idea. But it must be noted that the Olchian Union is a low tier 4.7 isolationist civilization that was limited to its system. If it had sent out any interstellar ships in the direction of Medwedia, they probably would be one-way sleeper ships that would fail when halfway there, killing their crews.
I think that Medwedia and the Talven Empire had a classic first contact - discovery of signals or telescope discovery of signs of planetary habitation followed by delegation exchange.
How far in the past do you think the first contact should lie? Medwedia as a supraplanetary state is several centuries old, probably the same for the Talven Empire, which actually originated elsewhere and only moved to the LSA.
We should find a way to make a plausible first contact story.
I'd like first contact to take place quite late, probably around 2580 at the earliest. It might be possible for Medwedia to have initiated contact with the Olchian Union before the Talva, but I'll probably be happy to go with whichever course of events you'd prefer.
From what I've understood, you are the main rivals of the Stellar Union. The Zagresi Cooperative doesn't like them either.
I imagine that a Medwedia and Stellar Union vs. Talven Empire and Zagresi setup could work for the Second or Third LSA war, provided that the creators agreed to it.
However, since the Stellar Union is nearly the opposite of Medwedia, I don't think that Medwedia-SU relations would be good. Maybe the SU and the Talven Empire would ally unwillingly? I don't know about Zagresi, however. They could support one or both sides resource-wise without fighting actively because it's gonna be happening away from their territory.
The Talven Empire has no formal relations with the Stellar Union and Zagresi Cooperative before 2800; I doubt that they make contact before the 2700s. Their relationships with both powers emerged from a storyline taking place in the 2810s. It might be possible to add in earlier interactions, but that may be difficult (partially because I'm also working on another war with TheDinoHunter at the moment). I don't think we could do much more than having the Union intervene in a war as a peacekeeper (I think TheDinoHunter didn't want them to militarize until quite recently, in-universe), although you shouldn't entirely trust me on this without TheDinoHunter voicing his/her opinion.
I think it would be possible for Medwedia to declare war on the Union in the Second or third LSA War because the Stellar Union is a multispecies democracy - as already stated, this is the Medwedian definition of Hell. If Medwedia launched heavy surprise strikes against the Union, temporary armstrice between the Talven Empire and the Union could be made.
Alternative would be a three-sided war, which would be a quite complicated storyline.
Something is telling me that the Zagresi Cooperative would at least stay neutral.
I'm working on a lot of collaborative projects at the moment, so I might not be able to take part in this soon (though if these wars are being postponed ooc like the Mendel Schism, that might not be a problem).
What are Fenric's ambitions for the Mendel Pact, and what is his attitude towards the Xonexian status quo? (And when would these wars take place in-universe?)
Well it pretty much is IN the Mendel Schism, Fenric is gathering soldiers and weapons to help the Hand of Retribution. He thinks that he is the rightful king of the Mendel Pact, plus he has some Adaist priestess telling him that he is Ada's chosen one to defeat the Grox.
Sorry that his page is not very fleshed out yet, I am busy a lot so I do not get the chance to write more about him.
I never wrote anything in the Xonexi Schisms or resulting wars, so none of my creations have an opinion of them. Fenric is a bit of a populist, though, so he would probably tell the Talven and Mendels alike whatever they wanted to hear.
At the time of the Mendel Schism, the Talva would be greatly restricted in assisting Fenric. They need to stay on good terms with the Mendel Pact as a whole, and thus cannot afford to give public support to a side that (as far a they know) could end up losing. However, they might be willing to provide assistance to Fenric in secret, by indirectly supplying him with resources purchased from a third party, as they do with Kirta Clett. They would have to refuse any requests for support if Fenric approached them directly, though.
Of course. How about a war involving me destroying a minor tier 4 civilization in a cruel way (by cracking the planet's only moon using a fusion bomb, resulting in debris rendering the planet uninhabitable) in order to exploit their planet's natural resources (a bit like if RDA nuked Pandora so that nobody could prevent them from mining) and then various civilizations try to stop Medwedia's "war crimes"?
Perhaps we could use parts of our old plan? The contested planet that we discussed could instead be Olchus. If it is at the edge of Talven space, the Medwedian Democratic Federation might claim mining rights and set up a disputed mining outpost on the planet, meeting resistance from the Olchian Union. The Talva could be funding the latter, and would declare war after the MDF uses a fusion bomb (as you described). This might take place after a failed attempt to negotiate an end to the cold war.
Also, are you still fine with having the war take place when we originally planned it? (i.e. roughly 50 years up to ~2800 AD - the current date is ~2819)
In Medwedian dating system, 2819 is 2289 AE (After Exodus, in which a large Medwedian city like Rome was destroyed by barbarian tribes and the Medieval times began). Maybe, say, 89 years ago, in 2200 AE (2730 in SporeWiki time if I calculated correctly)?
I would also like this to be hard sci-fi - yes, Medwedia has FTL (realistic Alcubierre-style drives; 100 lightyears still takes a couple months), but our ships follow the laws of orbital mechanics and we use fusion engines when maneuvering in planetary space. No artificial gravity, so our ships have to rotate. We use various weapons; high-energy lasers aside from various nuclear missiles and bombs as well as projectile weapons (Medwedian soldiers carry normal assault rifles with them).
I noticed that your empire is significantly stronger than mine. Medwedia has 200 systems at most, of which it only manages to tightly control 40-50 while the others are simply considered "protectorates" which the Medwedian military regularly visits to plunder or enslave natives. You have over 6000.
This means that I will need allies. Lots of allies. Do you know who would be interested?
That date is fine with me. The war would have to end in the 2790s (the 2260s in the Medwedian calendar).
Unfortunately, the technology and fiction style of the Talven Empire is too integrated into my fiction (and previous collaborative projects) for me to change it entirely into a hard sci-fi nation. I'm happy for their FTL drives to work at the speeds you suggested, and to use fusion-powered engines, but I can't make their ships rotate. The Talven navy is designed for space opera-style battles, so I am limited in the extent to which I can have their ships move realistically through space.
The Talven Empire won't have fought anything but pirates and raiders for a very long time, so Medwedia could easily gain a lot of ground before it has time to react. The Talva favor defence over offence, so they will take some time to strike back (even if they have the advantage). They also prefer honourable combat, so they'll avoid using WMDs unless under extreme pressure.
Alright, though the Talven Empire's tier level, industry, and military forces have advanced greatly over the past few decades. For example, around a third of its territory (the space 'above' Votum and around Foedus on this map) was only claimed recently in a huge colonization project with the New Cyrannian Republic. The Talven Empire has also become a lot less isolated recently, hence their technological advances (in fact, the rapid growth of their industry and military forces has wrecked their economy and forced them to become a lot less self-reliant).
I do understand your concerns, so if you still think you'll need allies, you might want to talk with TheDinoHunter, who is a quite active and owns twonations in the local region of space.
My Koldeweltian fiction is the Urnin Fraternity, a secretive settlement of near-Dwarves in the living valley of Urnithen. They specialize in the collection of knowledge and artifacts, particularly those that are related to the Simulacra. This would be the most likely reason for their involvement in the story, unless we set it near Urnithen.
My Urnin character(s) might be searching for an artifact or book within the borders of the Western Hive Alliance. This could lead them to work with a Rielir character, towards similar goals. I don't have many ideas at the moment beyond that.
That could work out nicely. I can imagine that Archqueen Ralie will be looking for an ancient Rielir artifact of great value, so they could easily work together. I was thinking of a "Rielir Codex" that details the history of the Rielir species before the Rielir Crusades. It would be valuable information for the bees to have, as they had just settled from a bloody civil war.
Ah. If it helps, I'll usually be able to work on the story while I'm on Discord (all user pages and threads seem to have a list of users that are on the server), although I might not always have the piratepad open.
(And in case you happen to see this in time, I'm on again.)
Hey Treebeard! I've been out of the loop recently as to Marinus' Rebellion and I'm wondering, how far are things coming? Is there anything I could be doing? Has the war started, or has something changed what's going on? I just need to know how things are going to play out to see how it will affect my fiction.
At the moment, the Talven Empire is negotiating with the Four-Power Alliance for a place in the Board of Seven. France appears to be the only nation that is currently resisting this agreement, so it looks like these negotiations will be successful. This will allow Balbus to achieve his goals without a war.
Given that the deal with the Four Power Alliance would lead to a lot of resistance and potentially an uprising within the Talven military, the conflict with the Stellar Union is still a possibility. If you'd like for this to happen, would Gorebor Azesa (or more aggressive leaders of the Zagresi military) be willing to carry out the attack alongside Talven rebels?
Sorry to peep my head in, but given that the Stellar Union is a member of the Grand Commonwealth of Sovereign States, it is guaranteed against aggression by France and the Delpha Coalition of Planets, requiring them to come to its defense if it asks for it. Would you guys like them to intervene?
My basic idea is that the Zagresi attack and that as the Stellar Union continues to lose battles, its brokenness becomes obvious. However, by the time they can turn the tide of the war (maybe just before this the intervention becomes large-scale?) the cracks within the Union have set it on an inescapable path toward collapse.
France will likely not be able to react immediately either. Assessing the situation, deliberating, planning, and mobilizing an intervention takes time.
Even then, its first move will likely be to secure the Talven Empire before using it as a base to project power further south to the Stellar Union. That should give the Zagresi enough time to destabilize the Union.
Sorry I missed your activity! I've gone ahead and written out the basic plot of the war (on the Union's side) on the titanpad, but you're free to critique it. I'd also like for you to incorporate your ideas for the Talven side of the war.
At the moment, I don't have any ideas regarding potential plots, though I would be happy to participate in any story.
The Urnin Fraternity (my Koldenwelten fiction) is an organization that gathers knowledge and artifacts, particularly those that are related to the Simulacra. The involvement of a scholar, an artifact, or a rare book would be a good explanation for their involvement.
Perhaps the Fraternity could discover the Rielir, and learn of the Rielir Ledgend of an ancient Rielir codex that describes how the hives came to be, and holds much information regarding the early history of the Western Forests. It's location, shrouded in mystery, would be recorded vaguely and it's details cloudy. Perhaps, one of the characters from the Rielir and the character(s) from the Fraternity could both be seeking it out?