Forum:Message Wall vs. Talk Pages, which do you prefer?

Forums: Index > SporeWiki > Message Wall vs. Talk Pages, which do you prefer?

Hello, after a discussion on IRC and a vote (which the majority won 8/4), I have enabled the Message Wall as a week-long trial, to see if people really do like it after a week. We won't use polls, they are inaccurate, as we don't know if users very active here or even from this wiki are voting, anyone could be. Instead, by next Friday, post your opinion on here with a signature, and use these templates {{oppose}} {{neutral}} {{support}}.

I oppose the Message Wall for several reasons; I don't think it is as clear as the talk pages, and I don't like how Wikia is becoming more like Facebook, this is a collaborative encyclopedia, not Facebook. It also looks like all these messages clog up the recent changes. However, if the majority vote in support, then that is how it should be. But think about the function of the message wall rather than its appearence, and whether its really anymore useful. --Wormulon Talk to me 14:14, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Post your opinions

Neutral:

Tbh I'm indifferent to Talk Page and Message Wall systems, but anyways... I think it's up to you guys and your opinions about this matter, with me, I feel like I'm okay with either. However Wormulon, I think you have a point. R17 of Tzeentch Ah... the Chaos gods speak clearly now... 14:46, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

I support the message wall. For the past while, I was contacted many times by new users who seemingly don't know how to sign their posts with four tildes, no matter how many times I tell them. The message wall removes this inconvenience by automatically telling the recipient of the message their username. As well as that, I have some other reasons to support it.

1. It's more aesthetically pleasing.
2. In my opinion, it's easier to use.
3. I don't see the point in hanging onto the past when a new system of communicating is released. While I definitely don't agree that Wikia is becoming more like Facebook, SporeWiki is a very social place compared to most other wikis.
4. Message walls already won over talk pages in my top ten list. I don't see the point in voting again just because there's a chance new users might have voted for it despite the fact most people on IRC were either neutral or in support the day this was announced.
5. It has better security, as in other users can't vandalise other user's messages, as was the case with talkpages.
6. People hardly use talkpages anymore anyway. IRC has basically replaced most of the need for them. I'm under the impression that the opposition want to keep talkpages simply because it has always been a feature on the wiki. If it was talkpages that were the new system of communicating, replacing something like the Message wall, I believe the opposition would be against talkpages simply because they are replacing a system they are used to.

--File:Apollo Mini.png - Cyrannian - Something Wicked This Way Comes... 15:28, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose:

I oppose, for the reasons I suggested above. Also, Um2k9, you must understand my reasoning for this forum. I don't like much of Wikia's new appearance and features, and more to the point, you have to admit half these features are not very useful for what a wiki is. I like editing wikis because they are wikis, if that is changed, to look more simple and blog-like, then I'm out of it. And what problems does this cause? Well new users won't treat it like a wiki, or any wiki. Yes, SporeWiki is dead in the water anyway when it comes to that, but that is again, why this forum exists. It also might be more aesthetically pleasing to you, but its not to me, and who knows what others think, another reason for this. I don't see how much better security it has really, either. --Wormulon Talk to me 16:02, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Another thing I don't like about it, is that if someone replies to something several days before and you have a page clouded with messages since, you can't easily or quickly find it, this also applies to any important message you may want to read again. --Wormulon Talk to me 16:28, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose:

I oppose Message Walls, for one, you can't customize them, like here. Second, it's littered with bugs, when I did a message that just was "=___________=", it became a header for some reason. Also, you can't link stuff in the title.

Also, only people with a strong sense of attention will notice any new messages on the message wall, which is now a tiny little red circle with the number of messages received rather than a visible text box that appears when you get a message.

Also, try archiving a talk page. I dare you.

Also when in read only mode, you can't read the messages on the message wall - So when wikia goes down, so goes the entire thing with it.

Also, you don't get a username on the message wall, but rather the name written on the greeting card-like thing above our userpages. This becomes a problem where everyone has his own custom name, thus new users won't know who's who at first.

And lastly, I agree with Wormulon. Wikia's becoming too much like facebook. The day they start asking for my real name and info I find too private to share, I'm leaving, thank you very much.

Irskaad - Talk to me - CLOCK Y U ON ICELANDIC TIME - Date and Time: 16:07, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

It looks pleasing, looks simple to use, doesn't look as easy to vandalise. My only beef with it is that it looks easy to spam, and that I haven't seen a remove comments button. TheHachi (talk 16:11, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

I like it a lot. It's fresh, new and it keeps up with modern appearances. It's easier for me to look at things and it also removes the need of signing posts. The wiki becoming too much like Facebook isn't a problem just as long no one posts pictures of themselves and we have a stalking problem.

Xho -- (Talk) 16:32, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose:

Wikia's trying too hard to become a Facebook. At this rate we'll have a "like" button for articles and hashtags for commenting on them.

Old talk pages, while they could get cluttered, yes, were I think more easily organizable and customizable. Like Wormy said, a message left on the wall could easily get lost behind a flood of other messages, or spam. I think it would be easier to be able to find a new message on a talk page rather than a message wall.

Also, Message Walls can't be customized. It's gonna get boring staring at that Wall, just like how it gets boring to stare at a Facebook Wall. At least with the talk pages we could spruce it up a little.

Sure, it's new and all, and some of you say we should embrace the future, but this is one of those cases where the ol' reliable performs better than the new tech. CaptainTybusen "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause"

Oppose:

I read the above, and made a pros and cons list in my head. The biggest issues seem to be as follows: Hard to find old posts, hard to customize, and you don't get a large heads up with a new message. These can probably be fixed with relative ease, for example, the MassiveCraft Wiki, which uses Message Walls, has a Sporewiki style "You've Got Mail" pop up box when you get a new message or reply.

However, the good things about it are that it reduces vandalizing (though it would be easy for someone to spam a message wall with "FUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!" by copy pasting and posting), and that it's simple to look at.

However, when I look at the grand scale of it all... I think that the talk page, where you could just remove vandalizing or even revert to an older version of the page, is more effective, easier to follow, and a more comfortable method of communication. MasterMachine(Talk) -Always looking for the Silver Lining, Always- 11:57, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

I'm in favour of the Message Wall; despite not being in favour of blogs for the same reasons many dislike the message wall, I prefer the Message Wall as it is simpler to edit and look at. It isn't really that much like Facebook; yes, the real names thing is pointless, but Battle.net did the same thing with Real ID's on their forums. If there's any issues, then I can probably customize them to sort of some peoples' issues.

Besides, we barely use talk pages nowadays, anyway.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 14:25, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

And it is possible to remove vandalism, easily. And I'm pretty sure it's not an ability that's mainly limited to admins, not that it matters with how many we have here. Ghelae - (talk) 14:54, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

I look forward to changes, and Message Wall's pros and cons balance each other; so I have no reason why should we oppose it, especially since talk pages could easily be emulated. - Imperios - The fallen empire will not be forgotten... 15:13, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Neutral:

I like both formats equally, but the message walls seem to keep things organized better. I wouldn't mind either way, personally. The Randomness | Wall 15:47, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Support:

I like the concept. Messages are clean, you can tell who is talking to you from the start, messages are well-divided. I think it is a clean system. Also when it comes to removing unwanted messages you don't have to revert the whole thing or go into edit mode; just delete the box. I prefer in-universe messages to be sent to respective empires or figures anyway and leave the message wall for anything else which essentially means we can still use both systems.--Monet47 - "Immortality is an elusive thing" 17:39, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose:

The concept is super gay, the real thing is super gay and removing original wiki layouts is the worst homogay thing ever (Im not homophobic) Sporesauce Talk page[[Special:Editcount/Sporesauce 95|Special:Editcount/Sporesauce 95 Edits]] 06:31, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

In response to Wormy's and Irskaad's comments, I still don't understand the reasoning behind this forum. The yes side won the vote fair and square, making another forum is simply delaying that. If the opposition won that poll, I wouldn't have dragged it out like this, in fact I forgot about it until now. The notion that the polling system is unprofessional is irrelevant and arguable, there are no ways to bypass the vote, making each one legitimate, new user or not. And at first yes, I didn't like the new wiki skin, or features. But I tried them. And they grew on me.

And now, for your other concerns:

1. Irsk, typing =___________= anywhere on the wiki would turn into a header... That has nothing to do with bugs on the Message Wall.
2. The point about usernames is completely wrong. The user's name, custom or not links directly to the user's userpage.
3. This is mainly to Irsk again, comparing Wikia to Facebook is a bit strange considering that you haven't used Facebook before. I don't think it's anything alike, and I've used Facebook for four years.

1. In response to Wormy's new point, considering that most users here use IRC as a means of communicating, I doubt clogging will happen.

--File:Apollo Mini.png - Cyrannian - Something Wicked This Way Comes... 16:33, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

I don't like using that voting system for important wiki matters. You can't tell who is voting, whether they even come from this wiki, whether they are new, or whether they are using sockpuppets. It is easily vandalised, I've seen dodgy stuff happen to polls before. And didn't we agree on a trial at the very beginning, it was going to be 2 weeks but I dropped it to 1. And the other thing, there are still users who do not use IRC. The talk pages have an advantage over IRC in the fact you don't have to wait until that person logs on, and anyway, there is still the matter that it'll take longer to find older comments. Irskaad also has a valid point that it isn't very customisable, which is what generally makes a wiki, a wiki. Instead, the aesthetic appearence has been made by someone else. --Wormulon Talk to me 16:42, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

You didn't seem to have a problem with the voting system at the time, in fact you said Well I say vote is in order, making no reference to a forum vote on Friday, April 13th. I'm still not convinced this is anything other than refusal to accept a new idea, you said yourself that you can be a WikiZombie. And I still think a two week trial would be fairer. I've already made it clear that people hardly use talkpages anymore, I may get four messages in a month. Two weeks would give us more time. Plus, like or not, message walls are more accessible to the new generation of users, who would prefer more modern methods of communication. --File:Apollo Mini.png - Cyrannian - Something Wicked This Way Comes... 16:55, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

I did not specify what kind of vote. "More modern communication", it still works for wikipedia quite well. Yes, I do not like the Message Walls, but I have my reasons and they are valid, you are not in the place to say to me, I am simply refusing the idea because I don't like it, using that reasoning, I can say the same for you and your desire for the Message Wall, which would be quite frankly rude. However, should the majority vote in favour then we should have message walls. I'm not trying to undermine the Message Wall. Wormulon Talk to me 17:07, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

You have my word that I wasn't being rude, my main desire for the message wall is because new users continually leave me messages without signing their posts, no matter how many times I tell them to use the four tildes, they hardly ever do. It would be easier for them if we used the message board. I'm simply annoyed by the fact that we already voted, and the majority did win. I wasn't trying to offend you. --File:Apollo Mini.png - Cyrannian - Something Wicked This Way Comes... 17:34, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

The majority did indeed win, but this forum gives people the opportunity to state if they have changed their mind, or if they don't like certain aspects of it as a trial run. Its no different to what we have done before, and I did not make this to be annoying. I percieved "I'm still not convinced this is anything other than refusal to accept a new idea" as passive aggressive, although you probably didn't mean it to come across that way. --Wormulon Talk to me 17:41, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Okay then, as long as there won't be hostility if people remain in support. --File:Apollo Mini.png - Cyrannian - Something Wicked This Way Comes... 17:43, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Result

The one week trial is over and the results are as follows, seven in favour, five against and two neutral. --File:Apollo Mini.png - Cyrannian - Something Wicked This Way Comes... 13:29, June 1, 2012 (UTC)