SporeWiki:Super Collab

'''Welcome to the SporeWiki Super Collaboration project page. The purpose of this page is to focus on key concepts and ideas created for the project, keep track of them, and make decisions on the project.'''

Introduction
The central idea behind the super collaboration is that users contribute to a world building project with a specialisation and can provide suggestions to other contributors. This could either be in-universe (such as science and technology, culture, and so-on) or out-of-universe (such as page formatting, image creation). Unlike the main fiction universe no-one will have full control or ownership over content submitted to the project. The spirit of the project involves voluntary contribution, and no user will be forced to do or not do something against their will. Users with different specialisms can also discuss their ideas with each other. Decisions will be made by community consensus.

How to contribute
The project should start out small. The idea is to build the fiction "bottom up", that means starting with the basics of the fiction before branching out. This avoids over-complication of the setting. The ideal would be to start with a single fiction, and for contributors to work together on it, before branching out to build more content and the setting.

Submitting content
Before content can be added to the project, it must first be submitted for canonization. This section will cover the types of submission, and how to submit content.

To begin, we shall cover the four types of submissions.

A submission is considered a "creation" if it contains content that does not build off of any existing canon content. This would include things like the creation of a new civilization or a new species.
 * Creation

Submissions in this category will have to be approved through a poll before it is accepted as canon. Territory claims also fall under this category.

A submission is considered an "addition" if it is a large addition to any existing content that is already canon. Examples include things like a new city, religion, etc. for an existing civilisation.
 * Addition

Submissions in this category will be automatically made canon unless vetoed by the creator of the content the addition pertains to. If vetoed, the subbmission will have to be approved by poll.

A submission is considered an "expansion" if it simply expands upon existing canon content. This would include things like past events, character descriptions, or buildings within cities.
 * Expansion

Submissions in this category will be automatically made canon unless vetoed by the creator of the  content the addition pertains to. If vetoed, the subbmission will have to be approved by poll.

A submission is considered a "modification" if it makes some sort of destructive change to existing canon content. This would include things like changes to a species' biology, removal of content, etc.
 * Modification

Submissions in this category will have to be approved through a poll before it is accepted as canon.

Here's a template that you should use for submissions. Simply copy/paste this wiki code, and then fill in the needed fields.

Type of submission:

Name of submitter:

Name of content creator:

Link to relevant content:

Brief description of submission:

Summary/longer description of submission (if necessary):

Voting
Inevitably there will be points and issues during the project where it could go one of a number of ways. Such issues will be debated in the discussion section below. Polls can be created using bullet points with a comment describing one's opinion. One may use polling templates if necessary.

Please be patient with edit conflicts. Save your edit before submission so it can be pasted back again.

When voting one should follow this example:


 * - Explanation - ~

When discussing, direct replies to the line above can be added in this fashion: User One comments "blah".
 * User Two replies "blergh".
 * User Three replies "blarg".

User Four comments on something else. returns:

User One comments "blah".


 * User Two replies "blergh".


 * User Three replies "blarg".

User Four comments on something else.

Current projects
None yet.

Submission
Submit ideas for review here. 

Scope of the setting
Type of submission: Creation

Name of submitter: The Randomness

Brief description of submission: Setting the spatial extent of the setting to 15 light years in radius

Summary/longer description of submission (if necessary): I propose that the spatial extent of the setting should be approximately 15 light years in radius. This means that the setting will be limited to about 30-40 star systems or so, and at least that many planets.


 * As per discussions in "Issue 1: Where should we set this project", this should definitely be the first stage of writing at least. The history and planetary cultures of the species that actually invents space travel; the events that shape their attitudes to, and the evolution of, interstellar colonisation; the new cultures that arise and colonies that are founded in the STL era, which go on to influence much of what occurs later; the first non-sapient species to be uplifted, artificial species to be created, and maybe even alien species to be encountered... all of these happen within the first few centuries, and if we don't start there, we risk glossing over those vital details that can naturally bring much more variety to the setting. 08:02, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * As per discussions in "Issue 1: Where should we set this project", this should definitely be the first stage of writing at least. The history and planetary cultures of the species that actually invents space travel; the events that shape their attitudes to, and the evolution of, interstellar colonisation; the new cultures that arise and colonies that are founded in the STL era, which go on to influence much of what occurs later; the first non-sapient species to be uplifted, artificial species to be created, and maybe even alien species to be encountered... all of these happen within the first few centuries, and if we don't start there, we risk glossing over those vital details that can naturally bring much more variety to the setting. 08:02, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * There's no real reason to expand beyond a very small number of planets, since we can easily increase the importance of individual planets. Furthermore, this is only the starting point - if we ever really need to expand beyond this small amount, we can. To those saying it's limiting, I think you're strongly underestimating how large and how important one star system alone is - remember how big the Earth you're on is, and remember how it's comparatively small to some other planets out there, and then there's so many space around for space stations...yeah.-- 10:02, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * There's no real reason to expand beyond a very small number of planets, since we can easily increase the importance of individual planets. Furthermore, this is only the starting point - if we ever really need to expand beyond this small amount, we can. To those saying it's limiting, I think you're strongly underestimating how large and how important one star system alone is - remember how big the Earth you're on is, and remember how it's comparatively small to some other planets out there, and then there's so many space around for space stations...yeah.-- 10:02, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I believe the spatial extent should be no more than 15 light years. In fact, when I looked at the density of stars within the region 12.5 light years of Sol, I even suggested that we be more general about the volume of our society's extent between a few and 15 at the very beginning, encase the latter was too big.  Anyway, 15 light years gives us a huge sandbox really.  I'm already thinking, the majority of stars in that region would be brown and red dwarf stars, and of course some stars with greater luminosity.  This has implications for the potential biology and habitability of those systems, and requiring different methods of colony and perhaps colonist as well.  That's just the start of what we can speculate on.  --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  12:08, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe the spatial extent should be no more than 15 light years. In fact, when I looked at the density of stars within the region 12.5 light years of Sol, I even suggested that we be more general about the volume of our society's extent between a few and 15 at the very beginning, encase the latter was too big.  Anyway, 15 light years gives us a huge sandbox really.  I'm already thinking, the majority of stars in that region would be brown and red dwarf stars, and of course some stars with greater luminosity.  This has implications for the potential biology and habitability of those systems, and requiring different methods of colony and perhaps colonist as well.  That's just the start of what we can speculate on.  --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  12:08, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

Limits on certain technologies
Type of submission: Creation

Name of submitter: The Randomness

Brief description of submission: Limitations on technology, most notably genetic engineering and cybernetics

Summary/longer description of submission (if necessary): As mentioned in Issue 3, after some lengthy discussion with Wormulon and Ghelae, I've decided to propose some limitations on certain technologies, most notably genetic engineering and cybernetics. Basically, genetic engineering can't be used to uplift sapient species, and will be limited to things like gene therapy, (treating certain diseases and eliminating harmful genetic defects) simple organisms modified for useful purposes, (e.g. bacteria that produces stuff for plastics, plants or worms that can move traces of certain minerals closer to the surface, etc.) and replacement limbs. (think prosthetics that have about the same effectiveness as organic ones)

Keep in mind that this does not mean that you can't create cybernetically "enhanced" races, just that they will have the same limitations as any other species. As Wormulon put it, having "enhancements" doesn't necessarily make them superior in intelligence, economics, political systems, or ability to acquire knowledge and so on. That they are still limited in resources and knowledge, and that their modifications have limitations too.
 * I agree that the employment of these technologies should not have an outsize influence on the power of the fiction that uses them. However, I would propose simpler wording to that effect, or to address the issue within the broader context of relative power in the Super Collab. To make any more specific determinations (such as the uplifting or physical enhancement of certain species) might border on legislating from taste rather than practical considerations of relative power. So long as a user is respecting the rights of others and the technology of the setting, the user may do what they want. However, I would postulate that they should be willing to accept the in-universe consequences for their actions, given that the Federation might have laws against such practices.
 * After discussing this stuff with Charles, I'm going to have this be discussed further before making it an actual submission. 03:32, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * After discussing this stuff with Charles, I'm going to have this be discussed further before making it an actual submission. 03:32, April 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * All I was proposing earlier was that we don't place restrictions on technology, only on the relative power of those technologies from exerting the kind of power predicted by some transhumanists, so rather like you say, there would be consequences and I think limitations too. I'm sure we can manage the setting and make it clear that there must be mutual respect between factions.
 * To be clear on what we mean by a "Transhumsanist utopia" [arguably dystopia] check out Orion's Arm. Now I actually like OA in many ways (and some even elements of transhumanism), except for the numerous levels of technological singularity that make no epistemological or even computational sense (it really isn't a matter of taste, the answer is quite definitive).  The various levels of post-singularity species in that universe are meant to be limited I read somewhere, but they aren't depicted that way.  They are depicted as superior in every respect without much reflection on limitations except for those imposed by others in their singularity level.  --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  10:02, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * To be clear on what we mean by a "Transhumsanist utopia" [arguably dystopia] check out Orion's Arm. Now I actually like OA in many ways (and some even elements of transhumanism), except for the numerous levels of technological singularity that make no epistemological or even computational sense (it really isn't a matter of taste, the answer is quite definitive).  The various levels of post-singularity species in that universe are meant to be limited I read somewhere, but they aren't depicted that way.  They are depicted as superior in every respect without much reflection on limitations except for those imposed by others in their singularity level.  --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  10:02, April 12, 2016 (UTC)

The "Long Draft"

 * As discussed earlier in IRC, I think that this is a good idea both in terms of how it will be executed, and also as an idea in general. I don't have too much more to say about it really. 03:32, April 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think this our best way of balancing our creativity with world-building constraints. We all have different knowledge-bases and likes/dislikes, and we could never agree fairly on one species.  Although each user will own their planet, we should keep a sense of sharing so that other people can contribute.  --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  10:59, April 12, 2016 (UTC)

Issue 1: Where should we set this project
Much of the focus seems to be setting this project in an entire new universe. And it seems to be the most popular idea. However, much of this spirals from a suggestion made on IRC, and there has been no formal decision on whether to start this project in the main fiction universe (or even Fantasy or Civilisation universe), a timeline or different era within the main universe, or an entirely new universe. I believe we should weigh the pros and cons for each of these settings (but we shouln't be concerned with the details of a setting yet). -- Wormulon  Talk to me  00:56, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * My personal opinion is that we may encounter conflits of interest if we set this fiction in the primary fiction universe at it's current time and space. The point is that we supposed to be working together, but that little island of working together will burst in a setting where in everything else we are not. Especially if the fiction expands and interacts with existing fictions, where we have very different ideas both in and oit of universe about how things run.  As a pro for setting in the main universe, it would mean we wouldn't have to build an entirely new setting.  And as a compromise, I don't mind working on a small-scale fiction set in the main universe as an experiment before working on something like an entirely new one.  In any case, we should start out small. --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  00:56, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * For the reasons Wormulon mentioned above, I think that we should have this take place in a universe separate from any established ones, and that we should start out with something small, i.e. keep it contained to a single solar system, at the very most, until we are confident that we can move on to something more. 01:14, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above. I have recommended, rather than keeping it to a single system, having user-owned components of the larger fiction be individual planets which can be fleshed out at will. This will allow us to limit to scope where individual planets are actually important, and ships can be unique without having to be huge.
 * I disagree with a new universe entirely, as it would limit our options for interaction once we are satisfied with this project being completed. Though I do agree we should prevent outside interactions for the time being. I would suggest we create a new galaxy to set this in. Then we can work from there. It could be kept in its own universe for the time being, but once we reach a point where we're at the point of having a sizeable fiction, keeping them alone limits things.
 * - Groxkiller98
 * - Groxkiller98


 * Perhaps a compromise between the two could be considered. Perhaps instead of a new universe, we build it in an alternate version of the Milky Way. For this version perhaps everything beyond the region is completely unknown - untracked "here there be dragons" territory beyond the edge of known space. We won't need to worry about alternate physics and if we keep the territory small, like say a few systems or planets, then it could easily pass under the notice of the space giants. If this fiction succeeds enough to warrant establishment in the main universe, then it can be easily moved. On a galactic scale 1000 light years isn't much, but that kind of volume can contain millions of stars; even conservative estimates on the Drake Equation would give us access to hundreds or thousands of planets capable of fostering conditions favourable to life. --[[Image:urielminipic01.png|20px]]Monet47 - "Immortality is an elusive thing" 11:55, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe... But if we were to perhaps have a new galaxy, we could build our own superpower for the super collab. And still not have to deal with the other big super powers being where we would be using. We could consider the new galaxy entirely non-canon, until a point where we can all agree on whether it should remain permanently non-canon, or become a canon part of the fiction universe.
 * - Groxkiller98
 * - Groxkiller98


 * I have plenty of potential ideas, but for me the most important thing is that we keep the world relatively small, at least compared to the big Fictionverse. A galaxy at best, or perhaps even a small sector of it. Outside of making the universe collab more grounded, this would also make the resulting project fairly easy to integrate into SporeWiki proper if it proves popular. [[Image:MiniTert.png|20px]] - Imperios  -   The fallen empire will not be forgotten...  16:02, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * In addition, if we start out by setting it in a relatively small region of space - say, within a sphere no more than 5000 light-years in radius - then whether it is more appropriate to be its own reality or whether it can be incorporated into the main fictionverse (and if the latter, where and when) is something that we'll be able to make a more well-informed decision on when we have more content. 16:06, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * I believe Ghelae's suggestion is a logical approach if we want to build up this fiction "bottom up". We should make sure we are well-informed before making any decision, so we are not running headlong down paths we can't turn back on. --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  19:36, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with both what Wormulon and Ghelae have said, but something I'd like to say is that it's important to realize just exactly how much stuff is in the relatively "small" space of 250 light years. Even in the local neighborhood, within a sphere of radius 250ly, there are around 260000 stars, and probably twice that many planets. I propose a starting space of, at most, 15 light years (for reference, there's about 33 stars within 12.5 ly of the Sun) so then we don't have to deal with the problems that come with large numbers being thrown around, and that the ownership of even a single planet is still significant. It's important to keep in mind that a bigger setting does not necessarily make it better, and that increasing the scope of a setting generally just introduces more problems. 20:04, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd honestly, per Random, say even smaller is better.-- 10:02, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Speaking of the area for the fiction to be settled, as Ghel and others said, we really should stick to the (relatively) small area to set up the whole project. I think that instead of creating a galaxy, or setting an area that is literally too small to become a thing, we could make some use out of so-called "galaxy satellites". If speaking of Milky Way, perhaps one of the Magellanic Clouds.
 * Or, we could set up the project in a globular cluster. It would be far easier to do than a satellite, or a galaxy. 18:00[UTC] April 10, 2016
 * My previous comment is basically that it's best to not decide exactly where the setting is until we've worked out what the fiction needs, and that applies to what kind of galaxy it's in just as much as which fictionverse it's in. We can start out small and expand it as we need to. In fact, that may be one of the first things we do after we get the basic idea of what the fiction will involve.
 * Satellite galaxies and globular clusters are possible scenarios to keep in mind, of course; but remember that they have the same problems as irregular and elliptical galaxies respectively. 17:35, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * If that's what we're going with, I think we should go with a smaller galaxy, and perhaps work with a faction that have a smaller portion of it, though with a high enough percentage of the galaxy that they wouldn't look like they would be in strict danger of being snuffed out by any large rivals. Perhaps it could be a dwarf spiral galaxy with two beams connecting the core to the arms? Maybe 20,000 light years in size? Then a 5000 light year portion would be the limit of the factions size?
 * - Groxkiller98
 * - Groxkiller98

I will have to agree with Charles Murray, i think that, if we gonna make a small Faction, why not a really small. Would be interesting to see how a tiny force trying survive in the between giants. Imagine a lonely sistem trapped in crossfire while there is a big interstellar war happening (any war that already exist in the lore, in any galaxy) they don't even know how and for which reason this war started, they only now that the are alone and now have to somehow survive. -
 * CptBreno - April 20, 2016, 22:52(UTC)


 * I'm going to still have to disagree. While that would be an interesting idea, it still limits us. Perhaps if we had one large power made up of smaller powers that could perhaps be struggling with infighting and the possibility of a massive civil war? Larger empires have the benefit of the ability to have vastly different cultures under one banner, due in part to the massive distances between star clusters.
 * I'd op for an approched more like the Republic from Star Wars where ever world is a different faction, though they are all under one alliance, lead by some sort of Senate as a whole. Could produce some interesting stories on both a personal and interstellar level. Corruption, infighting, ect.
 * Perhaps we should have a poll?
 * - Groxkiller98


 * I'd like to get to the bottom of why you think starting with a small faction limits us creatively. Starting small is the idea behind the project, because gradually the universe can be extended.  Limiting our scope allows us to keep things consistent, otherwise if we build a massive universe things will go out of control.    --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  02:00, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Starting so large is a bad idea. I've had experience in making a collaborative world before, and it very nearly died since it did not have focus. Starting large denies any sort of focus, and so it makes this less likely to succeed. I guess a good analogy for this is that you need to make sure you can build a house before you start trying to make a city. A bigger setting does not necessarily make it better. 02:43, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I can agree that the specific idea of a small power trapped between larger powers (that we don't elaborate much on, or are already on the wiki) would be limiting. Otherwise, yes, the key point is that we can always expand. So on that note, I suggest that we start out really small, like the pre-FTL stages of a colonisation effort, which allows us to develop the main themes and shared history behind interstellar society. Incidentally, based on IRC discussions so far, it probably is going to be a little like that Republic suggestion, with an overarching civilisation of sorts but little else connecting the disparate colonies and habitats. Even before we've finished that starting point, we should be on our way to figuring out where we want to go from there, both in time (into the future with FTL, into the future with more STL, focus more on this particular era, etc) and space (where in which universe it's set). 07:46, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Right... I seem to have misinterpreted. I thought you meant having a force that wouldn't expand and would be remaining small. I can agree, however, on an expanding civilisation that starts small. Focus is certainly important (I've learned that the hard way with my three fictions), but we should eventually expand beyond a limited area eventually.
 * - Groxkiller98
 * - Groxkiller98

Issue 2: Main species and homeworld
For a start, it seems like we should start off with a single species that first develops the technology that leads to interstellar travel (even if we have a small volume of space in which there are no aliens, things like genetic engineering and AI can still give us a huge variety of other sapient races). Members of these species are likely to be a stand-in for humans, as they are the presumably the species that we're going to be able to relate to the most. So, how human should they be and how Earth-like should their homeworld be? Here are the possibilities so far discussed: 14:42, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Alien humanoids (two arms, two legs, one head) from a somewhat Earth-like planet. Non-humanoids are generally either less relatable or less realistic.
 * Humans from Earth. This gives us ready-made pre-spaceflight history and cultures, and the surrounding astrography is already fixed: is this helpful or limiting?
 * Humans from a parallel Earth that has the same name but may be different in every other way.
 * Alien humans from a not!Earth. On IRC I suggested modifying the Proto-Indo-European word for "earth" to give the homeworld's name as Dheghum, so its inhabitants are "Dheghumans" or "humans" for short: so these humans are a species more obviously named after their planet without using the common "Terrans" or "earthlings". Imperios then suggested that "Dheghum" has also evolved into a nicer name, such as Taiko (or Tycho), so that "Dheghum" is a bit like what "Terra" is to us.
 * I think we should be careful when it comes to having a "main species". I would rather have just a bunch of species, perhaps with a group of around three being more important than the others. My original suggestion was that we have a pool of really good creature creators (so like Imperios, Oluap, Xho, etc), and then have a multi-species alliance with a mix of those. In the current format, we'd have users submit creatures and then see if it passes a popular vote review.
 * With this in mind, I'd have people create creatures, and then narrow it down to a selection of around five or six which are guaranteed to be in the final civilisation. From these few, we can choose one to be the "main species", but I think it'd be better if each species was given a more equal involvement, similar to settings like Mass Effect. The reason I think that we should go through the creature creation process first is because it could have a major impact on the lore.
 * Unless this is solely about the generic background ?_? in which case I'd go with the alien humanoids for certain.-- 16:10, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * By "main species" I don't mean to imply that others are less important to the setting; just that this is the species that the history starts out with (e.g. first to develop interstellar travel, ignoring any potential precursor races). I should also be clear that other species can also be just as relatable, but presumably they will not be more relatable. 16:19, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I personally don't like the last two options, unless the humans from a parallel Earth come from an alternative history (possibly with linguistic differences); or that there some setting-based reason (something like A Times Odyssey by Arthur C Clarke). If its random it just feels like "eww" coincidence to me, and also restricts the possibility of making proper humans in the future.  I think Humans from Earth is a possibility, but humans or even posthumans are quite difficult to model for most people in Spore, and once again may feel restrictive.  So I prefer "Alien humanoids" as the number one option.
 * In response to Technobliterator, I originally had the idea of a multi-species government, but then we must remember we are starting out at a really small scale. It is unlikely such a small volume of space would have evolved so many humanoids, in fact as we expand we may find that we want was less humanoid aliens.  But I certainly think we should keep the creativity open for several worlds to have complex life.  Even if we restrict them to be carbon-based terrestrial life, we can still be very imaginative with them in terms of biology and planets they live on.  Furthermore the humanoids could be modified or have adapted slightly to different planets.    --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  16:26, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm on board with multiple humanoid species. Though I'm against having humanity involved. I already have an idea brewing for a tribal-cultured race, and a couple of designs in the works that I started out of boredom. Still, I also agree with a multi-species government.
 * - Groxkiller98
 * - Groxkiller98

Issue 3: The extent at which we have biological and cybernetic modification
So there has been a significant amount of discussion between me, The Randomness and Ghelae about the extent and usage of genetic/biological modification, and cybernetics. If we go with a one-species empire as a starting condition, we can possibly still have a range of colonists adapted to living on different worlds or space habitats. The range could be quite wide, if we went really overboard we could have peoples who are more mechanical than organic, or even nanotechnological and organic, and so on. However, we all agree it might be best to restrict the belief systems in Transhumanism as much as possible, because it contains irrational ideas and is something we have absolutely done to death in the main fiction universe (irrational ideas include notions of superiority, or levels of supernatural intelligence incomprehensible to baselines). This does not mean we should exclude cyborgs, gene-Mods or bioborgs, so the question becomes, to what extent do we want them?

Well why do we want them in the first place? In many science fiction universes, modified humans are used to live on environments with extreme conditions. The technology that makes it cheap and efficient is presumed to exist, but also the culture is assumed to have overcome social and ethical issues. Fine. But are they really useful compared to simply building arcologies or specialised habitats? If the point of a colony is to build an economic hub to move large amounts of goods and people across an interstellar empire, those colonies are going to need to grow. And changing the bodies of all those people (forced even?) doesn't sound right (and also restricts the politics). It's more likely that our empire is going to want to build colonies that can be lived in by all colonists, not just specialised groups. Wherever people go, and I assume its the same for alien people who progress like us too, it is the environment that gets adapted in ever grander and finer ways.

However, this doesn't rule-out all kinds of modified person or creature. If the means are there, certain colonists or job types might involve the need for certain cybernetic or biological modifications (and maybe for colonies not intended to be hubs?). We skip around the irrational aspects of Transhumanism (seeing them as superiors) by the fact their modifications only have so many uses, and all have limitations as well as benefits. As such, the starter nation doesn't have disparate groups of distantly evolving post-species, but is one society of free-moving baselines, cyborgs and what have you. The point is, the technology would be best suited for comfort and ability rather than for strictly colonising planets or creating superior beings.

The next question moves onto whether we include uplifted animals or genetically modified animals, that are instructed or modified to carry out useful functions. Personally I'm open to this, because I think that if we start with one government and one species, we may be limiting the options for people to make creatures and models. So there would be an option to make uplifted animals, sentient machines and even adapted-peoples if we go for that. -- Wormulon  Talk to me  20:12, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * I support having very few - or no - restrictions here. As long as they can be explained, even with moderate sci fi writing, I see no problem with it at all. This is my stance on many other things in the setting, too, it should be open to as many things as possible. As long as we can pass said elements through committee, and the techies can explain them, it should be allowed.-- 20:17, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * For the early centuries when there is no FTL, moving people and goods would not be a pratical aim. Colonisation ships would find a new system and make do with it as best they can with what tech they have available; they may not even expect another ship to arrive for decades. That being said, in most cases I'm sure they would both prefer, and find it easier, to make space habitats rather than half-terraform an inhospitable planet and then modify themselves to survive on it.
 * And I don't think there's any risk of us sliding into transhumanist cultism; neither you nor I have the remotest intention of making magically-intelligent AI, merely ones with faster processing, larger memories and fewer cognitive biases.
 * If anybody wants to nominate any possible restrictions (e.g. no uplifting, no augmentations that are "better than human" under some particular measure), then they can put it to a vote. 20:27, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I certainly don't believe in restricting the creation of things out of a fear they will fall into something I don't like.
 * What you are saying is true if we are starting our civilisation as an early interstellar civilisation. I think we could make some restrictions to prevent others falling into the trap of transhumanist cultism.  --Wormul.png Wormulon   Talk to me  20:54, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * agree, we can make cyborgs and modify humans or creatures in the universe, but we shouldn't focus on that, at first.
 * It can make a good story, but later, when a real "empire" start to rise.
 * CptBreno-April 11, 21:26 (UTC)


 * I would Oppose.png Oppose placing limits on these elements as misplaced and premature. The decision of whether or not to use cybernetics, gene mods, transhumanism, or uplifted animals should be left up to the individual user. We need to strike a careful balance between giving people options and limiting their creativity, and I believe that this errs into needless restriction based solely on taste. Besides, limits on these elements will naturally emerge as Wormy and Ghelae outline what is technologically feasible in our setting.
 * While I agree with Charles that placing restrictions on the use of certain technologies may be premature, I think that such restrictions on technology may be more suitable for in-universe restrictions, for example, laws forbidding the use of genetic modification on intelligent species that do not provide consent. Also, the level of technology (which is something that will be decided sometime later) will provide implicit limits on technology that we do not need to set. While I personally would oppose the use of technology for things like uplifting species, terraforming, etc. (for both ethical and practicality reasons based on the timescales associated with the setting), I think this will offer a compromise based on how other people feel. 03:32, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree. It should be left to the individual user on whether or not certain biotic modifications are used in a character or species. Though I do think a reason should be given for that. As an example of a good use - replacing a lost limb. A bad reason to use it would be because it looks cool. We need to be reasonable with it, but limiting stuff isn't fun.
 * - Groxkiller98
 * - Groxkiller98