Fiction talk:Tavalta'æna

There is hidden text here for notes between Wormulon and Needles 10. Do not delete.

 Well, they are a hivemind of individuals greater than the some all parts, this superorganism lives in their subjective minds, and is able to control them. They live in a pocket universe or virtual reality. [18:58]  So that plan is just the first step in a big reform in the Tavalta'aena. [19:02]  Not exactly... I really changed them up a ton. They aren't really subjective anymore. They have a pocket universe which is influenced by energy created by subjective thoughts, though. [19:02]  They are kind of like sentient energy. [19:04]  The Pocket universe sustains a physical manifestation of the Tavalta'aena Energy Nexus. [19:04]  So this universe is tuned to their mental processes. Its biocentric? Interesting. [19:04]  Biocentric? Meaning...? [19:05]  Certain interpretations of quantum mechanists suggest the role of the observer and collapse of wavefunction (where an atom can be in two or more places at once until it is observed). [19:05]  Life creates the universe, not the other way around? [19:06]  So these beings created a universe where their mental processes, perhaps through quantum means (if you want of course) tunes the physics of their universe. [19:06]  Sort of [19:06]  Yeah. They "observe [19:07]  Oops [19:07]  Biocenrism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL7-t9p8Zac [19:08]  And a similar theory where life creates a universe using time loops http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/reality_intelligent_universe.asp [19:08]  If you use quantum mechanics this will be interesting indeed [19:10] <Wormy> The SporeWikiverse uses the Many Worlds Interpretation of QM, the idea that each change creates alternative universes. Biocentrism doesn't have a place in the SporeWikiverse.  But, another universe (not another fiction universe) created by these beings could work by biocentrism. [19:10] <Wormy> Am I going too fast for you? [19:10] <Seld> They "observe" the universe through energy and build their universe off of the energy they observe. They take the energy they observe from energy produced in minds, black holes, natural gas power plants, and all energy in the universe that exists - and make a universe out of that. [19:10] <Wormy> This could be the mechanism for it. [19:11] <Seld> No, you're not going to fast. I like the idea. Biocentric Universe. [19:11] <Seld> Yes. [19:11] <Seld> This could be the mechanism. [19:11] <Wormy> These beings would fit the Tier U/0 archetype nicely. They are advanced enough to experiment with other alien physics [19:12] <Wormy> Or, something advanced like an AI simulated them out of interest [19:12] <Seld> The Tavalta'aena are already Tier U, Tier 0 could fit well, too. [19:13] <Seld> What do you mean by "stimulated"? [19:14] <Wormy> That an AI created them to experiment a different universe working by another framework of quantum mechanics instead of the Many Worlds Interpretation. [19:15] <Wormy> Trouble is, a lot of users are fed up with new godly races. But the AI Netspace is established, not seen as overpowered etc and might be recieved more warmly. [19:15] <Seld> Mmm, an AI could have sparked the sentience bit if it interacted with a nondescript energy wave. [19:16] <Seld> I've been there. The initial intro to the Tavalta'aena... [19:16] <Wormy> I've also got another idea as an extension to the biocentric idea [19:16] <Seld> Yes...? [19:16] <Seld> I'm open to ideas. [19:17] <Wormy> Well, in a biocentric universe, the laws of physics are bound to the organisms of that universe. Aliens would exist in their own domains, as they would have an alien framework of physics atatched to them. [19:17] <Seld> Yes, that is true. What else? [19:17] <Wormy> There could be different Tavalta'aena in different domains. [19:18] <Wormy> So you could have more than one to play around with, each in different observed domains of the same univrse with different physics. [19:19] <Wormy> This explains it better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOb_ln7-78k&context=C30c691bADOEgsToPDskIVBvbEP3SuM9Nhyur1Ew1S [19:19] <Seld> In the SporeWikiverse they would be a massive sentient energy field, observing the energy flowing throughout the universe. [19:20] <Seld> Fermi [19:20] <Seld> Ah! [19:20] <Wormy> They would appear to other races in the original universe as an energy field, barely distinguishable from background raditation noise. But they would exist in their universe as living things [19:22] <Seld> But it would also emit a visible glow if seen with the naked eye. Like a giant Cardiovascular network, energetic pulses flowing toward their heart, the gateway inside their universe. [19:22] <Seld> Exactly... [19:22] <Seld> And the multiple domains? [19:23] <Wormy> In the biocentric universe/or simulation, there could be Tavalta'aena inhabiting different domains specific to their observation. [19:24] <Seld> The observation is ever-changing. The Tavalta'aena is a superorganism, remember [19:25] <Seld> They see as one, but throughout the cosm. [19:25] <Wormy> yes [19:26] <Wormy> But it is also greater than the some of all parts, so they collectively see one version of the cosm [19:26] <Seld> What do you mean? [19:27] <Wormy> What I'm suggesting, is that the universe/simulation supports more than one Tavalta'aena superorganism. None of these superorganisms know of each other, they for themselves exist in independant realities. [19:28] <Seld> Yet it is merely one universe. They ought to know of each other, unless they have a galaxy each... [19:28] <Seld> They know of each other in the SporeWikiverse, though? [19:29] <Wormy> No, they woudn't know of each other. If the physics of their universe is biocentric to their mental processes, then a different Tavalta'aena superorganism would have its own biocentric universe. [19:29] <Seld> It is a whole superorganism, though it is made up of smaller subsections. [19:30] <Seld> The Organisms in the Superorganism. [19:30] <Wormy> I mean its only an idea or an extension to your original. To use more than one Tavalta'aena superorganism. [19:30] <Wormy> I'm talking about different superorganisms :P [19:30] <Wormy> Not different parts of the same superorganism [19:30] <Seld> More than one Tavalta'aena Superorganism... Ahaaa... I see where you're taking this. [19:31] <Seld> They could probably be connected at the "heart" of the "cardiovascular [19:31] <Wormy> Good. And the different superorganisms live in their own biocentric realities. [19:31] <Seld> They could probably be connected at the "heart" of the "cardiovascular" glow, but the "heart" could branch out. [19:31] <Wormy> Although unknown to them, they all exist as one. [19:32] <Seld> Yes. They may all know the heart, but they don't know the rest of themselves. [19:32] <Seld> But they all connect at the heart. [19:33] <Wormy> If you choose to use an AI, I have one already that is suitable for the job. [19:33] <Seld> What could the "Heart" be in the first place? [19:33] <Wormy> Read "Gödel's body snatchers", maybe not now, but it has the answers http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3AComing_of_the_Singularity%2FStories_of_the_Technoosphere#G.C3.B6del.27s_body_snatchers [19:33] <Seld> AH! This again! [19:34] <Seld> The Heterogeneousness! [19:34] <Seld> That one? [19:34] <Wormy> The principle of the story is that the AI "The Heterogeneousness", uses alien logic of alien races to try and get a complete picture of the universe. [19:35] <Seld> Ah [19:35] <Wormy> Different logic could exist in simulations within "The Heterogeneousness" [19:35] <Seld> The Heterogeneousness could act as the Heart, possibly. [19:35] <Wormy> One of them being the biocentric universe which acts as the heart [19:35] <Wormy> yes [19:36] <Wormy> I like this idea [19:36] <Seld> But I don't know about the Tavalta'aena being contained as an experiment of the AI. Note that the Heart is the gateway into the Pocket Universes

[19:39] <Wormy> Thing is, it works quite nicely. The benefits are: *This provides a background explanation, *There could still be the gateway residing within the AI, *The Tavalta'aena are less likely to be frowned upon by some. [19:39] <Wormy> Although I'm not forcing you. [19:39] <Seld> The Heart is a "drain" into the many PocketVerses. Whichever Tavalta'aenan Superorganism you find yourself in the energy stream of, you fall into their universe and get captured by their physics. [19:40] <Wormy> That could still work within the AI of course. [19:40] <Seld> I see where you're going, and I am liking it. [19:40] <Wormy> We shouls save this talk so we don't forget it. [19:40] <Wormy> I'll do it [19:40] <Seld> You can still fall into the Fiction Universe, too. [19:40] <Seld> Okay

-->